Help with Steel City Vault
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@letseeker I mean... Blightsteel is probably better than Sphinx? I like Sphinx a lot, but the majority is on board with Blightsteel
@Topical_Island biggest reason i wanted to try sphinx was because dack is everywhere on cockatrice and i feel like sphinx may be better against the 5c humans deck because of lifelink, does the risk of getting blightsteel stolen by dack still make it better to run than something that cant? sorry if i sound like a jerk when im saying this, just trying to explain my thought process.
@letseeker Oh cool. I just thought it was an old list. I'll tell you, I've been running an Oath list with Emrakul, Grisselbrand, Sphinx (plus Show, Channel, Tinker)... It works. But I've recently cut out the Tinker and Sphinx due to the rise of white in vintage. Sphinx used to be just awesome when everyone ran Pyromancer lists with green and red removal. Swords is a big problem now. Early tinkers that get a Swords are just really bad and put you way behind. I'd say to rate your likelihood of seeing Swords and decide. Myr Battle Sphere is something else I've seen too, but I have no experience playing it.
@Topical_Island the main reason i wanted to try sphinx is because(from what i can tell) the mentor decks arnt as big as they were a few weeks ago but the humans deck is on the rise. maybe i could sideboard a battle sphere against the mentor decks? im not sure honestly, i havnt played the deck since 2012-2013 just before dack and mentor and young pyro and at this time i was just starting out in vintage, i never got good with the deck lol
@letseeker Sure then. I think Sphinx is a great call then. If people aren't running swords I think it's a great way to exploit that.
In a vaguely related suggestion. I would for sure test Chalice in this list. (which might seem crazy and might be... but hear me out.) I'm really really high on mainboard Chalice post it's restriction. And this deck looks like it would be great to me. On the high end of the card, you can do sweet things like drop it for 1 on turn 1... which looks great. Taking away Misstep and Flusterstorm (Fluster still pretty much works through Chalice at 1) you have 7 cards that get hit by Chalice (Though you really don't have Brainstorm in?)... compare that to 12-17 that get hit in a lot of Gush decks that run Preordain Brainstorm Ponder GitProbe... Over time they will have so many more dead draws that Chalice can turn into better than an Ancestral. And you can still combo off using Tezz with little problem. Basically, there are commonly played decks who would be hurt by Chalice much more than you.
You can also be gutty and drop a ton of Moxes and then Chalice at zero on turn 1 based on the deck. That kinda play against some Shops variants seems pretty good.
Or you can drop it for 2. That shuts off 4 cards in your deck, 2 of which are Mana Drains. And it cuts off a really good way to beat you. Null Rod or Stoney Silence, which has got to be a big part of and Agro creature plan against you I would think.
Lastly, with Tinker, 3 Thirst, 3 Thoughcast and Tezz, I think the likelihood of Chalice being actually bad is pretty low. Most bad scenarios involve just Tinkering it, or Thirsting it away I would guess... anyway. I'd test it. I like it because I think it just steals a lot of games off the jump, which is why it was restricted in the first place. More now, since people somehow think it's been banned altogether and run a ton of Moxes again.
@Topical_Island i was considering running a chalice or a trinisphere, not sure which but ill be sure to test both. i didnt add brainstorm or ponder because i wanted to make each card as individually powerful as i can so there are no really bad topdecks late game.
@letseeker makes sense
trinisphere seems a non-bo in any list with tendrils. On the other hand chalice is really nice, since it stops lots of things, it was restricted for a reason.
If fayden is everywhere and swords is not, then sphinx is the right call.
And play some answer to notion, I don't know if sudden shock, fire ice, slice and dice or REB... something that kills that terrifying human rogue.
@xouman Hey, a little off-tropic here, but what happens if each player has a Thief in play?
@Topical_Island it is as if there are none in play.
@wfain Well that might be one answer. It answers Dack pretty well too.
@xouman would playing my own thief count as an answer to other thiefs then?
@letseeker yes, your thief "counters" the ability of theirs if both are in play
@letseeker I'm in, lets do it.
@Topical_Island this is the updated list. im really liking burning wish so far as having that to be able to get a few silver bullets or another way to win has been good. the sideboard is pretty standard for the most part, i have my wish board, i have my shops and storm hate and i have dredge hate. the helm of obedience also comes in against dredge as a tinker target that just kills them.
Edit: forgot about bribery, I'm testing this against other tinker decks and oath
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
3 Mox Opal
1 Black Lotus
3 Seat of the Synod
1 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Goblin Welder
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dig Through Time
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Notion Thief
SB: 1 Balance
SB: 1 Vandalblast
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience
SB: 1 Bribery
@letseeker Holy Brokenness Batman. That is a super interesting list. It seems really well put together and coherent. A negative that I see is just metagame position. I wonder how this thing does against Gush Mentor? I would guess about 50/50 but I have no idea. (I love bribery in the board, awesome... hello Mentor... I wonder if that shouldn't just be mainboard... seriously. What percentage of your metagame is Oath, runs Tinker Collosus, or runs that pesky Mentor? 40%?)
On the downside, this thing looks really soft to Fish/Hatebear/Humans type strategies, which are on the rise for sure. Stony Silence looks like a huge beating for you. I like Wish into Vandalblast against Null Rod. That seems ok. But I would think Hatebears, anything with Scab-clan Berserker against you is going to be rough. And that seems like it might be the soup du jour.
I wonder what sort of tuning you could do against those decks... Sweepers?
Those are my thoughts.
One thing I would like to say is this is a very untested deck so I can only theory craft at this point. Against mentor i have balance, it's mind twist, one sided board wipe , or one sided Armageddon, or all three. I imagine mentor to be decent because they have to counter just about every card I play and I can refill faster than they can with the draw 7's, and my cards Would be much more powerful so the draw back isn't as bad. As for the meta, cockatrice is constantly changing and it's hard to tell. For the fish decks I just try to be faster than what they can keep up with. As I said this is all theory crafting at this point
I have thought about replacing the ingot chewers for nature's claim just to be able to beat null rod and stony silence, any thoughts on this?