@protoaddict

Its not, sure there are some rares/uncommons/commens that become playable, but there are still a number of mythics. The most recent card that I would like to play, but can't reason the sticker price is Wrenn and Six, the is $70 a piece that's $280 for a playset. That's an absurd price point. I can buy an entire gaming system for that amount. I can buy at least half a dozen other games for that amount.

To top that off, I am paying real dollars just to even play the game against a decent opponent online (sure there are prizes, but they pale in comparison to the entry cost).

When there were actual physical cards and store fronts to support, I could understand the cost (at least a bunch of the money was going to someone I knew), but its mostly an online game now (especially with the pandemic).

I'm pretty sure this is the most expensive game out there (at least the most expensive that I am aware of), and its not even remotely close.

@vaughnbros said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

I'm pretty sure this is the most expensive game out there (at least the most expensive that I am aware of), and its not even remotely close.

Apparently you have never played Golf.

I mean, one would make the argument that the cards you buy for magic maintain their values better than other products and can actually appreciate in value unlike almost any other game. Most videos games cannot even be traded or resold at this point, and consoles resell for pennies on the dollar.

The game does have a high bar to entry, and there is a tinge of irony to the fact that people with 20-40k price tag decks are complaining about a 75 dollar card, but in honestly most other magic formats are even more expensive to keep us with at this point. Standard basically requires you to buy a new deck every 3 months. Modern and Pioneer you run the risk of your entire strategy being banned because they remove a pivotal card.

I would love to see the price tag go down, but most of the pricing is driven by the free market right now with the exception of the fixed product with set MSRP, but even they get gouged. WOTC has even taken very public steps to reprint staples and pricy cards like grim tutor as of late, and they get yelled at for doing that as much as they get yelled at for not doing it. I'm not sure you can put the genie back in the lamp at this point.

@protoaddict

I mean, sporting events are a totally different class, but sure some are very expensive. They are expensive for legitimate reasons though usually (you need a lot of land). Magic is only expensive because they choose to make it expensive.

The loss of re-selling is still significant, with exception to only a few cards. The “collector” portion of Magic’s hurts the “game” part of magic.

Wizards could make significantly more money by reducing cost. These cards are highly elastic. If you provide a cheaper supply, you will get more demand. The game will end up with more users, those users will have a better experience (shorter match finding, more bloggers), and other benefits of having a larger more popular game.

This is getting off topic though. My main point is that through Restricting everything you reduce the need to keep purchasing play sets of expensive new cards. At most you need to get 1.

@vaughnbros said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

This is getting off topic though. My main point is that through Restricting everything you reduce the need to keep purchasing play sets of expensive new cards. At most you need to get 1.

Other discussion aside, I have long loved this idea and would love a singleton vintage format.

Maybe highlander Vintage is the only way to move forward with the new cards. I’d at least be interested in trying it out.

If not highlander then the restrictions shouldn’t be so biased as to allow Workshops, PO, and Bazaar but disallow Gush, Channel, etc. What makes Workshop or PO so much more vintage worthy than Gush?

People claim PO is non issue because of Null Rod. (LOL) meanwhile there’s another two mana artifact called Ankh of Mishra that has similar affect against Gush strategies. It’s just craziness. This restriction list is very dumb.

It seems to me that PO players just want to play by themselves anyway so I’m happy to give them what they want and play other formats.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist

I’d be very happy with turn time limits, while we are discussing ways to improve Vintage and magic in general. Watching someone combo for 10 minutes straight, while I just click “ok” over and over again is the dumbest, most boring part of the game.

@vaughnbros said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

@desolutionist

I’d be very happy with turn time limits, while we are discussing ways to improve Vintage and magic in general. Watching someone combo for 10 minutes straight, while I just click “ok” over and over again is the dumbest, most boring part of the game.

That's my favorite part 🙂

On Magic Online you can just F6

@smmenen

What if I want to see if my mental misstep will be relevant? Or if I go start downloading some porn and forget I was playing a game of Vintage?

@desolutionist said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

People claim PO is non issue because of Null Rod. (LOL) meanwhile there’s another two mana artifact called Ankh of Mishra that has similar affect against Gush strategies.

I just had to LOL at this. 2 damage per land vs not being able to use any artifacts or develop mana. Doesn't seem similar to me.

@thewhitedragon69

It ends up being 5 damage for the first land or two. Fastbond is out of the question. Not being able to use mana vs. being dead from damage is pretty similar.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

Not being able to use mana vs. being dead from damage is pretty similar.

given the choice between Null Rod and Ankh of Mishra for artifacts, which would you play? eidolon of the great revel is close to the latter, but we see a lot more collector ouphe then eidolon.

The RR casting cost is probably the bigger issue.

@john-cox said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

The RR casting cost is probably the bigger issue.

There's a general lack of respect for Ankh of Mishra around here. Next thing you know people will be talking trash on Black Vise.

@desolutionist Most decks can win on 3 or fewer lands with artifact mana. I'll take 5 damage and win the game vs sitting on 2 lands, no other mana, and a pile of uncastable cards in my hand until I die any day.

@Thewhitedragon69

I am talking about Ankh of Mishra against a deck that wants to make land drops every turn... A "land deck". Gush decks are not artifact mana decks. Could be Sphere of Resistance. There are plenty of options.

I wouldn't bring Ankh of Mishra in against PO. I would bring in Null Rod. What are you trying to say here? My point is there are counterstrategies for Gush the same as there are counterstrategies for PO.

You're thinking too hard.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

You're thinking too hard.

Damn, I hate it when I do that...

@desolutionist said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

@john-cox said in SMIP: 2020 B&R Roundup:

The RR casting cost is probably the bigger issue.

There's a general lack of respect for Ankh of Mishra around here. Next thing you know people will be talking trash on Black Vise.

I really like black vise...

@desolutionist Ahh, I misread your post then. I was thinking you were saying Ankh vs a deck using gush is as good as Null Rod vs a deck like PO. Many decks, like Jeskai, use Gush and mystic Sanctuary, but, since Gush is restricted, will be taking at most 8-10 damage and just winning the game, whereas Null Rod vs PO is basically turning their deck off until they remove the rod.

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