In an effort to keep discussion going on new decks and ideas, I'm trying to share some of the lists that I have been playing to success and my reasoning behind playing them. A card that interested me when Ikoria was printed was General Kudro of Drannith, a B/W Human lord which in 2020 has much more text than it would previously. The incidental graveyard hate and the Reprisal ability are both relevant as they provide unique functionality. An interaction that has come up frequently has been using the graveyard ability to shrink opposing Tarmogoyfs in the BUG and 4 color matchups. Removing an artifact or a planeswalker can often turn them into a 3/4 and let your team through. The Reprisal ability was something I was interested in when UR Sprite Dragon was seeing a lot of play. That card is difficult to race and I wanted an answer that wasn't narrow in the main deck.

The first iteration of the deck trophied and can be found here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3167642#online

I have played the deck in two more leagues, finishing 4-1 in both. You play a lot of grindy games. Wrenn is a problem, as discussed here, but I simply switch decks when Wrenn becomes popular, and all decks tend to wax and wane on MTGO. Vintage has been very dynamic lately. I wasn't a fan of the Kitesail Freebooters. I found them not as impactful and poor against the Bazaar decks that were seeing more play in the field. Similarly, Dark Confidant feels slow in this format and I only run a few. You are ironically playing from behind often against HollowVine and Dark Confidant is terrible in that matchup specifically. Deafening Silence has also been a card that has been horrible for me and I keep reducing the numbers on the off chance it demonstrates a shred of promise.

Regarding the Mayors, those are considerations for having access to active FoV on turn 1, which is important for the Shops matchup (a traditionally abysmal matchup) and against PO. I'm tweaking the numbers of other cards and I haven't run into a situation in which Kambal has been good (should probably just be more Sanctum Prelates). Surgical Extractions are necessary against the HollowVine decks. You can't beat 12-16 power on turn 1, with some having haste. You just can't. You need to stop that and Surgicals are the best option. Exile the Vengevines, and then realized that you are going to have to do a lot of combat math, smart blocking, and good sequencing to salvage the game at a single digit life total.

Heck, it's a Modern deck with Power. The games are going to be tough at times. The advantage is much of the field is poorly configured to deal with your threats (both the number and the fact they are uncounterable) and you get to leverage two of the most powerful cards right now in Wasteland and Force of Vigor.

The last list I ran was:
alt text

My suggestion would be to find room for Karakas and Containment Priest. Also Palace Jailer as a one off in main deck.

While it is very good for consistency and to maximize the potential synergies, you do need some amount of outs versus resolved threats.

Deafening Silence in general is a strong card that enables you to keep hands with turn 2 Thalia or turn 2 Dark Confidant but no other plays on turn 1. It is the ultimate turn 1 play if you did not get a mox or a Noble.

Keep up the good work 🙂

There is plenty of Oath and Dredge in the mtgo metagame. Very important to have Priest around against Dredge AND Hogaak. You don't really care about the Hogaak either, there are other cards that can deal with it, the problem is that you need something to stop bloodghast & vengevine in the mid game and just to prevent too much trash coming into play. Tinker + Creature is still a play that is being used. I think 2 copies of Priest main deck and 2 copies in sideboard is a good split. Another important aspect is that Priest works really well with Palace Jailer.

It is the combination of having some amount of Priest/Jailer/Karakas that gives you a reasonable chance to find an out when it matters. Just running 1 Jailer without the other cards or just running 1 Karakas without the others is not good.

last edited by Guli

This was an incredible write-up on a platform that generally lacks them. Keep up the good work and I hope the deck continues to treat you well.

The list looks aggressive and clean, though it lacks interactive cards. Adding more sanctum prelates is one way to put the brakes on faster decks. General Kudro looks like a house in such an aggressive deck.

What I don´t get is the manabase: Why do you run a five-colour manabase in a three-colour deck? A fetch and dual base could be made stable and compact and would support your non-human cards better. In particular, I dislike both unclaimed territory, nurturing peatland and silent clearing, since they don´t cast ouphes and plows.

The best part of playing fetches and duals is of course to support Knight of reliquary 🙂 That way, adding those utility lands actually becomes worthwhile.

@recklessmbermage said in Azban Humans:

The list looks aggressive and clean, though it lacks interactive cards. Adding more sanctum prelates is one way to put the brakes on faster decks. General Kudro looks like a house in such an aggressive deck.

What I don´t get is the manabase: Why do you run a five-colour manabase in a three-colour deck? A fetch and dual base could be made stable and compact and would support your non-human cards better. In particular, I dislike both unclaimed territory, nurturing peatland and silent clearing, since they don´t cast ouphes and plows.

The best part of playing fetches and duals is of course to support Knight of reliquary 🙂 That way, adding those utility lands actually becomes worthwhile.

Having played quite a lot with a very similar list now, I have some experience. I actually like the manabase. What this deck (and most hatebear decks) lack is a draw engine and card selection. You don't Preordain and keep lands if you need them and bottom them if you don't. Playing a few more lands than usual and making them cycle if you don't need them, like the Canopy lands do, is a way of making it less likely that you don't draw lands and also that you don't flood. I'm pretty sure that was chubby's intention, and it's working out for me at least (although I do play a slightly different manabase).

Also, the deck plays 9 lands that cast Plow and Ouphe (and you could even name 'Ouphe' with 8 other lands as well if you really needed), plus on color moxen, Petal, Lotus, 4 Hierarch as well as 4 Once Upon a Time. In my experience, casting Ouphe or Swords has never been an issue (although to be fair, I haven't played that many matches in which I've boarded in Swords).

last edited by Griselbrother

Are you guys facing much DPS or Doomsday? What is the game-plan there? Seems like not running Deafening Silence is a problem when facing combo.

@stormanimagus said in Azban Humans:

Are you guys facing much DPS or Doomsday? What is the game-plan there? Seems like not running Deafening Silence is a problem when facing combo.

My record against combo on MTGO is 6-1 (1-0 vs DPS, 3-0 vs Breach, 1-0 against PO and 1-1 against Doomsday). Small sample of course, but I haven't really missed Deafening Silence yet. The PO and and Breach matchup seems pretty good, while the Doomsday and DPS matchup seems worse (because Ouphe isn't very good here), but my sample size for those two matchups is very low. I did get completely destroyed by Doomsday in the top 8 of the Challenge two days ago, but Deafening Silence wouldn't have made a difference here since both games losses were to Thassa + Consultation off Lotus.

I do really like Deafening Silence and I could see the Kambal's being replaced by those, especially if DPS and Doomsday continue to see a lot of play.

...And just as I wrote this, I got destroyed 2-0 by DPS 😄

last edited by Griselbrother

Let me ask the question about Deafening Silence differently. I think the true value of the card lies in the mulligans it prevents. Obviously we do not need the card when we can open with a Cavern+Mox into something relevant.

I do understand that in the lists with Champion of the Perish & Noble and the artifact acceleration, there are is more chance to hit a turn 1 play and play a turn 2 Thalia, Prelate or Kambal. Once upon a time also helps in this regard.

So I believe the problem of being able to get a play on turn 1 (do not really want land pass, this deck really wants to develop its board) is kinda fine. But will the turn 1 play be relevant to the meta? Especially on the draw and facing decks that can consistently take a win on their turn 2 or with time walk on turn 3.

I think it is never ever wrong to play 2 Silence main deck. You do not need to play 2 more in the SB if you don't want this, but having those 2 slots in the main will improve your opening hands and in general you will have more slots dedicated to slowing down decks that rely heavily on spells to make progress and artifact mana to improve their mana base. If you don't want this main deck and also refuse to play 2 or more in SB, then you better show me a list that consistently plays out relevant anti-blue cards on turn 1.

Silence can act as a quasi 'Veil of Summer' when opponent plays an Oath and you flash in Priest or use Force of Vigor. It can be mana denial because they can't drop more than 1 mox at a time. And it is spell denial as well. The effect is a truly powerful one. I don't believe this is a matter of evaluating the card of being bad. I also don't think this is something you didn't miss or did miss. I think this is more of a matter of having enough reliable mana sources to cast this each time it is in your opening hand. The Cavern mana bases without fetchlands might struggle with this more than they would like to admit 🙂

last edited by Guli

@guli

You make some excellent points, and I agree with everything you say. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Deafening Silence, and I've played it myself both maindeck and sideboard (and I'm also trying it out in the sideboard at the moment). Heck, I've even played Eidolon of Rhetoric maindeck at some point.

I think there's actually of lot of theory that could be discussed in this regard, like "speed vs. disruption" and "bombs vs. general utility (do you play cards that are very impactful in a few matchup like but dead in other, like Deafening Silence, Grafdigger's Cage, Chalice of the Void etc., or cards that are decent to good in a most matchups but aren't almost game winning in any specific matchup, like Thalia 2.0, Phyrexian Revoker, Scavenging Ooze etc.).

Hatebears can be designed in so many different ways - which is the wonderful part of the deck - and it all depends on the approach you're taking. You and I play very different decks with very different approaches, so comparing them directly and stating that one card that is good in one deck is also good in the other would be wrong (not saying that that is what you're stating, but you know).

  • 11
    Posts
  • 927
    Views