@brass-man said in Humility + Decree of Justice:
I honestly don't know if they've changed the layering rules in the past few years, but I think Humility'd creatures retain their bonus from +1/+1 counters. That means a Humility will actually make every creature in a Workshop deck except Foundry Inspector bigger. With Shop-Aggro representing such a big portion of the aggro decks in the format, it really dampens how flexible the card would be in Vintage specifically.
You are absolutely correct. Rules text below. Basically, power and toughness-setting abilities are applied in Layer 1 and then things that modify power and toughness are applied later. You can make a funny deck using Humility and creatures that have +1/+1 counters. You will have the biggest dorks on the board!
**613. Interaction of Continuous Effects613.1.
The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
613.1a Layer 1: Rules and effects that modify copiable values are applied.
613.1b Layer 2:Control-changing effects are applied.
613.1c Layer 3:Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, “Text-Changing Effects.”
613.1d Layer 4:Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype.613.1e
Layer 5:Color-changing effects are applied.
613.1f Layer 6:Ability-adding effects, keyword counters, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can’t have an abilityare applied.
613.1g Layer 7:Power-and/or toughness-changing effects are applied
613.2. Within layer 1, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.7). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.8.)
613.2a Layer 1a: Copiable effects are applied. This includes copy effects (see rule 706, “Copying Objects”) and changes to an object’s base characteristics determined by merging an object with a permanent (see rule 721, “Merging with Permanents”).“As . . . enters the battlefield”and “as . . . is turned face up”abilities generatecopiable effectsif theyset power and toughness, even if they also define other characteristics.
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield”and “as . . . is turned face up”abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics).**