What did Kari and Bill eat for dinner?

  • @themonadnomad Oh man. If the government were aware of these things, I'm sure the sauce at least would be on the list of controlled substances.

  • I also like to cook, but I think I'm way off Kari. You probably have overweigh, eating so well on a daily basis!

    Playing always 1on1 have the problem that you can metageme the deck, but in this case it seems you are anti-metagaming. Fow is one of the best mentor cards against oath imho, so reducing them into 1 seems pretty bad.

    My advice is to prepare 4 decks, and start playing 1 of them without knowing which one is. That way you'll learn new things from the same deck 🙂

  • @xouman Yeah... I am overweight xouman... thanks for noticing.

    Yeah. I'm working through the number of Forces one wants in this metagame. I really feel that Force is at a decade long low in terms of overall vintage metagame value, but that said, I cooked up something today with 4 Force again that seems much better. I'm not so worried for her with Oath, but with Eldrazi and their 4 Cavern of Souls. But it looks like if blue is the main color, 4 (or 3 at least, if you ask Brian Kelly) Force of Will seems like a must. It always makes me want to get Wasteland in there so you can kill Caverns and turn Force back on... Landstill? Why do more people not play that deck, I just don't understand.

  • June 25

    We've been in full rebuild mode on Kari's Gush/Mentor deck since the rise of the Eldrazi menace. Like everyone else, we've been scratching our heads trying to figure out what beats these guys.(pssst, Oath gets a pretty good game.)

    We tried packing in Swords. We tried shifting the colors around, since the two most orthodox builds (Cronastery and Sylvan) seem somewhere between slow and terrible against most of the Eldrazi set ups. I tried a Grixis plus white version and it was terrible. It just fell apart to Wastelands. I tried cutting white and running Pyromancer. That seemed ok, but just not good enough. I tried putting TiTi in...

    Then today I tried Black with Flippy Jace. Results.

    This is hardly an original concept. I saw Brassy playing something similar the other night on Twitch. The key interaction for this deck against the White Eldrazi build I'm testing against, is the inclusion of black discard spells with blue recursion creatures like Snapcaster and Flippy Jace. I was trying 2 of each for awhile, but eventually copied Brassy's set-up of 2 Snap and 3 Flippy Jace. Another difference is that I'm running 2 Thoughtseize, and 3 Cabal Therapy, 1 Duress, plus 3 Gitaxian Probes.

    Those numbers are very much in flux. But after trying to dodge their Caverns by dropping the number of Forces, the new plan is to go right after Eldrazi, by squeezing them into tough choices about playing creatures of holding them in hand. Basically, we want to have a deck that often has Force up, while often destroying the opponent's hand in a few turns.

    I've also become convinced that the actual hate cards in print for Eldrazi are woefully lacking. There isn't really any card that directly punishes someone for playing Eldrazi. (Which frankly amazed me as I went back through the Oath of the Gatewatch, and Rise of the Eldrazi sets... nothing like destroy target colorless creature... or return up to 2 colorless creatures to their owners hands... I kept looking... nothing.) The best thing we have is things like Swords, and Ensnaring Bridge if you want to go that route. So it looks like 1 for 1 removal is pretty much it... which leads me to what I now believe to be, very subtly, the best anti Eldrazi card in print - Flippy Jace.

    There are two real ways for a blue deck to have a good game against the current Eldrazi setups. The first is to secure an Ensnaring Bridge in play and hide behind it, before winning slowly with a Jace, or Strix, or perhaps a Mentor going slowly and very wide. The other is to trade card for card with the Eldrazi deck, until the space aliens are exhausted of resources. The second method exploits one of the few weaknesses the Eldrazi decks all have - Extremely high mana count, with no draw engine to speak of. Flippy Jace allows one to feed every aspect of that trading in this set up. It lets you recur Swords and the black discard spells, even by sacing extra JVPs to flashback Therapy. It lets you get back Probes and take fresh looks at the opposing hand and of course, go broken with extra Gush and broken blue cards.

    Kari beat me in 2 tonight while I was cooking dinner. I was playing the White Eldrazi, and she was on Black Mentor. A lot of the play is liney and interesting, for example, she blind named a TKS on an opener tonight and hit it. This is by no means an easy win, but there are far far fewer Eldrazi hands that just roll over the blue deck.

    Dinner was good. I made garlic shrimp with rice and seared snow peas, with a tumeric sauce reduced from the water I steamed the shrimp in. We ate frozen cookie dough for desert... we ain't proud.

  • JVP with Thoughtseize has been one of my favorite combos for a while now. Just utterly devastating in some matchups

  • @ribby Yeah... I'm slow in coming to this. Is anyone working on mixing in Cabal Therapy too? I'm really trying to exploit the fact that Thoughtseize gives knowledge of the opponent's hand.

  • I'm not a huge fan of Therapy (though it feels sweet to play so I've tried a lot)

    The main problem is that discard in general is almost unconditionally amazing turn 1 and then just becomes situationally good or irrelevant as the game goes on. So Therapy's front side and back side are both a little awkward without going all in with e.g. Git Probe. (That's how the games play out for me, anyway.)

    I really like JVP with say 2 or 3 Thoughtseize so that I get virtual access to the late game copies should they turn out to be what the game state calls for. And both cards are individually rather powerful (or maybe more accurately, synergistic with many different cards) which I always like.

  • @ribby In all honesty, I've gone back and forth about this card. But I will say this. Late game Therapy when you have Mentor on the table is just insane, so when paired with a Mentor, it's not like this card has no function. I got up to running 4, but that proved to be way to many. Even 4 probes, 4 Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize doesn't provide the effect one might think... I currently cutting back to 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Therapy, and 2 Probe... But again. Think of the effect with Mentor on board, sacing the most freshly made token to pump the team.

  • any spell is good with Mentor on board.

  • @wappla true... so true. (Especially ones you can cast.)