@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Opposition Agent:

@thewhitedragon69

Any list with this needs Dark Ritual, and probably other fast mana (Elvish Spirit Guide?). So I'd add that.

I'd add 2 more Ouphes, 1 Null Rod, and 1 Chalice of the Void. Need to deny their moxen.

Cut Liliana too slow. Cut Demonic, and the Symetries. Also too slow.

I'd try with the 3 Maralen, but probably cut that 1 eventually. That's just a random finisher for the game. You need a lock before you can play her.

I don't think I would ever cut Demonic Tutor. I can't see how it's ever too slow, especially with rituals. And Scheming Symmetry seems great also.

I'm looking at blowout lines of play such as... flash Agent EOT (or earlier in the turn depending), and on your turn cast Symmetry, find your best card, find their best card (ancestral?) Their ancestral doesn't go on top of their library, it's exiled and you can play it and pay any color mana (notably for this deck, B.)

@thewhitedragon69 said in [CMR] Opposition Agent:

@vaughnbros I prefer Ouphe over null rod since FoV is a thing and you need beaters as the deck is devoid of much besides control and lock. Chalice is a good add. Demonic grabs Maralen or Agent or Ramunap or Strip, which is great, since the deck really hinges on a couple key strategies (mana lock or search lock). Symmetry is also additional tutors for those few cards and is great combo with field/surgical (they HAVE to shuffle). Symmetry + agent is also backbreaking: get a card you want topdeck and grab their ancestral or anything? Could go to 2 Symmetry, cut 2x liliana, and add some more fast mana/3rd ouphe/Chalice. Similarly, you could go to 2 Maralen and keep symmetry to grab her. Having turn 1 flashed agent into turn 2 Maralen is awesome. I really want a Mana Crypt to facilitate turn 1 Agent more, but without tinker or any way to sac it, I think it kills yourself 9/10. Also nonbo with ouphe.

Karn/Lattice is a safe include for this list I think. If you have rituals I would consider other toolbox artifact options for the SB for karn to grab like Tormods crypt or something.

I would not cut DT, it is way too strong. Maralen is probably not needed so much as it can lock up a match so I would think go down to 2 of thoes.

Karn, yes, but Lattice is very expensive.

Yeah DT for Black Lotus is the main target I guess.

Here's my updated list - obviously could still use tweaking. I'm trying out crypt since you can decay it or Karn-kill it.

// V_1_Tyrant

// 61 Maindeck
// 5 Artifact
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

// 15 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Collector Ouphe
3 Maralen of the Mornsong
4 Opposition Agent
1 Ramunap Excavator

// 10 Instant
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Assassin's Trophy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Mental Misstep

// 20 Land
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Forest
4 Bayou
1 Nurturing Peatland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
2 Field of Ruin

// 1 Planeswalker
1 Karn, the Great Creator

// 10 Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
3 Scheming Symmetry

// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Artifact
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Collector Ouphe

// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 5 Instant
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Force of Vigor

Update: This is getting WRECKED by Jeskai Mentor. Main bolts/Abrade/Plow just utterly destroy agent, and the deck without agent is pretty weak.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

@thewhitedragon69

Yeah because you are playing like 6 dead cards.

@fsecco said in [CMR] Opposition Agent:

@botvinik said in [CMR] Opposition Agent:

I fail to understand how turning witch claw talisman into a good card is less ambitious than stealing all of your opponents draws and turning the into DTs for you for the entire rest of the game.

Talisman is not a shitty card on its own, as is Malaren. You can't even PLAY Malaren without Agent already on the board, so bad it is. And if you do and they have an answer to Agent you're probably dead.
Talisman can also go get the Agent. Malaren + Agent is a hard lock, I know, but it's a lot of wishful thinking.

If that is what you mean thinking small is an incredibly bad choice of words but the point is valid.

@vaughnbros Maralen is really the only "dead" card. Symmetry is still fine with surgicals and fields, and surgical is solid on its own in a lot of matchups, especially with 6x duress and land destruction. But there's just not a lot of pressure and no value cards besides Agent. The deck is built to abuse agent, but without agent, there's just a lot of "okay" cards.

Vs Jeskai Mentor, which I happened to test against since I knew it'd be a tough matchup (as opposed to Doomsday which you should just blow out if you flash Agent in), they just have a lot of removal spells in addition to counters and a much more efficient clock. The Snapcasters and Arcanists flashing back bolts and plows just makes it impossible to fight through all that hate and stick an arcanist. Dack is also a whooping.

Testing vs Doomsday seemed pointless. I either have a turn 1/2 agent and blow them out, or I don't, and they ritual/DD/win. Vs bazaar, I either have a strip/surgical and hope they didn't just go turn 1 -> 16 damage on the board, or lose. Vs Shops, it seems it could swing either way as all shops matches go: I either get to play some mana and trade answers for lock pieces, or they turn 1 sphere me out and I never play magic. Jeskai seemed the only match that was "fair" but still tough...and their amount of removal just makes a resolved Agent near impossible to keep in play. BUG I haven't tested yet, but they have the decays and Oko in addition to counters, so I assume Agent is equally toast in that match too.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

@thewhitedragon69

Those cards are all weak though. So it’s 6 dead cards + 6 more relatively bad cards. It’s a lot of card advantage loss for a deck that has no draw engine.

No Rituals, and fast means no early lock.

You have to push towards control or combo + add mana accelerators.

@vaughnbros Honestly, in testing vs a variety of things, I think this is just best in a BUG or humans build or something as a value SB card that you can drop turn 2 sometimes. Making a controllish deck with draw and cutting all the symmetry/surgical/etc means I'm basically just running BUG and splashing this guy. BUG can play this guy with DRS/moxen fairly easily on turn 2 as just a 3:1 that has long term value. It's a good SB card, and decent main deck. I think building around it is actually what makes the deck bad. It's a great splash effect, but building around it just doesn't work as far as I've found, since removing it makes so much of the remaining deck worse.

Possibly a UB rogue deck could work - Vendilion clique, this guy, notion thief, utilizing cavern, and FoW/FoN/Seize/Surgical/Scheming. A singleton Marelen for combo maybe. You need some form of threat that works on their own and definitely counterspells to push Agent through/protect it. I REALLY like the interaction with Agent and Scheming and also with Scheming and surgical. I'm high on maindeck surgicals anyway, esp with discard/wastelands.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

Newest attempt - doing better!

// V_1_Agent Maralen

// 61 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Bolas's Citadel
1 Sensei's Divining Top

// 8 Creature
1 Maralen of the Mornsong
4 Opposition Agent
1 Notion Thief
2 Snapcaster Mage

// 13 Instant
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
2 Force of Negation
1 Dig Through Time
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm

// 17 Land
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta

// 2 Planeswalker
1 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Narset, Parter of Veils

// 11 Sorcery
2 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Scheming Symmetry
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Ponder
1 Gitaxian Probe

// 15 Sideboard
// 8 Artifact
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage

// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 3 Instant
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap

Still a work in progress...but it pushes through/protects Agent much better. Maxing out on moxen makes it a turn 1 play often. Could probably use a tinkerbot. Needs work, but rough draft is more promising than GB.

last edited by Thewhitedragon69

As a generic hatebear, you can throw it any list, but it’s weak against most MUs like that. Commit to mana denial and it’s better:

4 DRS
4 Agent
1 Maralen

1 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Necro
1 DT
1 Demonic Consult
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Karn
1 Trinisphere
4 Ouphe
4 Assassin’s Trophy
4 Force of Vigor
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Life from the Loam

1 Elvish Spirit
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
6 Black Fetches

Sideboard:
Needle
GY hate

This cards best function is preventing all fetch lands. This needs work, but focusing on the mana denial will give you a game plan of Kill all their mana sources. You do need to clean up loose ends after though.

So this has a powerful effect, similar to Arbiter, but for 1 more mana and you get Flash and a stronger penalty. Is that worth it? How much difference is there in how much play we see in similar cards? Notion Thief versus other cheaper cards that prevent card draw, for example?

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