@protoaddict

The drawback is actually an advantage alongside a Mentor-type effect since it'll keep triggering it.

But that kind of seems like a win-more.

I guess it can't hurt to throw 1 copy of this into a deck and see how it runs.

last edited by vaughnbros

@vaughnbros said in Krak, the Thumbless:

The drawback is actually an advantage alongside a Mentor-type effect since it'll keep triggering it.

That is situational though. If you cast Karak, go to case a spell, they bolt Karak in response and you lose the flip you really just got killed on tempo. Him getting bolted out is always a threat but with the few of these cards all that will happen in the worse case scenario is Storm count+1.

I think the interaction with Mindbreak trap and MM is actually really strong and you would likely want to use them over any traditional counter magic, and I could see a list that wanted to run bolts and somelight disruption and just go face. Pyromancer seems fine, I think Mentor and splashing white at that point seems win more since you cannot protect it with FOW as you normally would be able to.

Not sure what other purely free spells there are that are worth exploring. Mogg Salvage could be a thing.

@protoaddict said in Krak, the Thumbless:

Archive Trap

Helping your opponent stock their graveyard is always a rather dubious strategy in Vintage, but wow, mill 26 for 0 is certainly efficient enough to deserve respect.

All I know is that in a red/black storm shell, getting 2 Tutors and a few Rituals off should be an easy GG.

@serracollector said in Krak, the Thumbless:

All I know is that in a red/black storm shell, getting 2 Tutors and a few Rituals off should be an easy GG.

It CAN turn Manamorphose into a Darw 2 ritual. Not the hill I want to die on for this though.

This card is going to have some REALLLLLLY feel bad moments.

What happens if the spell gets countered before Krark's trigger resolves? Does it still see a spell that doesn't exist anymore?

@evouga

Mill 26 and potentially boost storm for Brain Freeze.

Losing to Krark's flip on your Flusterstorm seems like one of the better things you could do, I think I would start there. Also its worth mentioning that Ravenous Trap is unaffected assuming it's condition is met. Seems to me his largest downfalls are that you almost certainly won't be running the up-to-12 various Forces that are available and that he is miserable with a Sphere around, but those can be mitigated in deckbuilding. I'm assuming that anyone playing this card is accepting the addition of greater variance to a high-variance game and ignoring that argument.

bolts
gitaxian probes
lava dart ?
shattering spree

it's damn exciting even in a fair deck

I think it does “counter” the spell by returning it to hand. It’s just like Venser or unsubstantiate

Oh, I'd run this in an aggressive Death's Shadow deck with phyrexian mana. Surgical and Probe would be great with this. Add bolts and key blue cards and seems you'd have a fast clock.

@evouga said in Krak, the Thumbless:

@protoaddict said in Krak, the Thumbless:

Archive Trap

Helping your opponent stock their graveyard is always a rather dubious strategy in Vintage, but wow, mill 26 for 0 is certainly efficient enough to deserve respect.

I am also a fan of this archive trap plan.

@botvinik Good in combo with ravenous traps to avoid shnanigans.

Oh, I also, if I read this right, if you use this with Sea-Gate Stormcaster, the copy is of the spell is not cast, so it will resolve no matter what. That's a potential of 9 Bolt damage for 3 mana. That could be some nice tempo play.

@wagner you meant 3 mana, right? And that's not counting Krark himself., which would be 9 damage for 5 mana and 3 cards...

last edited by fsecco

Dreadhorde Arcanist also works really well with this card since if you lose the flip it doesn't get exiled due to how Arcanist is templated.

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