[CMR] Jeweled Lotus
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@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
This is a gateway to reprinting “functional identical” RL lands.
True duals lands that can only be the colors of your commander.
A true black lotus that can only give you colors of your commander.
A gaea’s cradle that can only be a color of your commander.
A Mox that can only give you a color of your commander.
A time walk that works any turn you haven’t cast your commander.
You get the point. This is a great “cheat” to the RL.Again, none of these are cheating the reserve list for multiple reasons
1 - Many of these exist along side the RL copies you would be using anyway. As it stands you cannot use duals that are not your commanders colors anyway, and why wouldn't my UB Commander want Underground Sea AND functionally identical underground sea?
2 - They have flat out said in the past that they would not cheat the reserve list by printing effectively functional reprints with different names. The example they tend to give are snow duals but thats a lousy one because Snow is different. A better example would be a reprint of Underground Sea with a new name that just said that you could not also have Underground Sea in your deck. This is not that because the card is functionally very different, as are many of the ones you just listed.
3 - Some cards they simply will not reprint in a new format because the old version was broken and a mistake. Ancestral recall is a broken card. Many attempts to make balanced ancestrals have fallen apart as well. Why would they introduce that into a casual format when no one is clamoring for it?
@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
You get the point. This is a great “cheat” to the RL.
I suspect we’ll be seeing the duals soon.But we have duals in that format, specifically for that format, and they are not strictly better, and that is by design. Why would they make more and powercreep them as such when the last 25 years has been them intentionally not doing that with the exception of under estimating how warping the fetchlands would be?
I think more likely would be that we get snow true duals that are fetchable, but along side that we get playable cards that punish snow in such a way that they are not strictly better or worse than ABUR Duals but rather subjective. Time will tell I guess.
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I think they would because many commander players don’t have $200-$600 for duals and never will.
If they “reprint” true duals (with commander backdooring), they will sell lots of packs.
That’s why they would circumvent the RL with commander only RL cards.
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@thewhitedragon69 said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I'm buying 4x (maybe 40x). They printed Companion last set and I hear they are printing Commander as a Vintage type in Kaldheim. Can't wait!
Good luck. It's selling for 150-160 dollars.
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@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I think they would because many commander players don’t have $200-$600 for duals and never will.
Again, that does not work. If they backdoored dual lands like this all it would do would be add another dual. The ideal manabase for that deck would likely still want the original dual and the new one and cut something else like a shock land.
Maybe in a 4 color deck where you don't have room for 2 of each it helps solve a problem, but 2 color decks are sure going to want a second matching true dual.
I honestly think just banning every reserve list card in that format would be a better option than trying to patch it, and that way wotc wouldn't have to print replacements because they are not trying to fix a market problem.
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@fsecco Yeah, I'm not baying $15-16 let alone $150-160. This card can only cast commanders, so it's basically junk except as a 1 of in a single format.
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@thewhitedragon69 said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
@fsecco Yeah, I'm not baying $15-16 let alone $150-160. This card can only cast commanders, so it's basically junk except as a 1 of in a single format.
It is. Except that Commander is the format that drives cards' prices more than any other. I bet this price will come a bit down once people realize this card is not as busted as they think. But the high demand alone will keep it way high. Being a Mythic won't help.
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@thecravenone said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
$150 ugly Black Lotus proxy
My thoughts as well.
I’ll just stick with Blacker Lotus as my proxy, thank you very much.
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Just leaving this here.
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@john-cox well, that's the double-pimped version though. I get your point, but I don't think it counts as a good measure of the card's price.
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They should errata the card for Vintage so you can use it instead of Black Lotus
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@lienielsen That would certainly get around the reserved list. They aren't "printing" a functionally identical card. They'd be errataing a different card to have a similar function.
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@protoaddict said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I think they would because many commander players don’t have $200-$600 for duals and never will.
Again, that does not work. If they backdoored dual lands like this all it would do would be add another dual. The ideal manabase for that deck would likely still want the original dual and the new one and cut something else like a shock land.
I agree, they would need some awkward form of text like "Volcanic Island 2.0 may not be in play at the same time as Volcanic Island," or whatever needs to be done.
That said, this is the closest they have come to toeing the RL line and commander provides a way to do it.
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I'm so confused by this card's existence. In a format where every decent accelerator is banned, let's also print a Black Lotus effect.
This is such money grab.
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@vaughnbros LOL, it is. But then again, it's also a game produced by a company whose sole purpose is to earn the most profits possible.
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@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I agree, they would need some awkward form of text like "Volcanic Island 2.0 may not be in play at the same time as Volcanic Island," or whatever needs to be done.
I believe they explicitly said they would not do this exact thing.
@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
That said, this is the closest they have come to toeing the RL line and commander provides a way to do it.
I would make the argument that I think the Shock lands are functionally less different from dual lands than this is from Black lotus. Reverberate is less different than Fork.
These 2 lotus are worlds apart. This card is questionable in Commander, and some commanders can use it better than others. Black lotus would be useable by every commander and would be a slam dunk is most any competitive build.
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99% of Commander decks will play this, and the other 1% just can't afford the real life cost of the card.
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@protoaddict said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
These 2 lotus are worlds apart. This card is questionable in Commander, and some commanders can use it better than others. Black lotus would be useable by every commander and would be a slam dunk is most any competitive build.
They are worlds apart, this is vastly worse than the black lotus. It will also be played in every EDH deck. Just because it is worse than the power 9 does not mean it is ok, how would you feel about an ancestral that only drew 2. It would be very different from the one we have now, but I bet it would be restricted and played everywhere just the same.
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@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
99% of Commander decks will play this, and the other 1% just can't afford the real life cost of the card.
I don't think they will for any number of reasons other than cost.
1 - detuned decks are a thing. People actively don't play optimal lists for the sake of 'fairness' in this casual format. cEDH is still the vast minority of players.
2 - 4 and 5 color commanders. Omnath does not use this card well at all and would likely want more lands instead. Likewise Atraxa and a number of other popular commanders.
3 - it puts a huge freaking target on your head. Rushing out a turn 1 Golos or Najela in that format is going to turn it from commander into arch enemy really quick.
4 - it won't maintain that price. The collector's versions, sure. Foil borderless oko and great henge are up there already. Standard frame non foil will probably be comparable or lower to other edh staples like doubling season or mana crypt, in which case what grounds do people have to complain about an in print card? They will go back to complaining about the reserve list.
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@botvinik said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
They are worlds apart, this is vastly worse than the black lotus. It will also be played in every EDH deck. Just because it is worse than the power 9 does not mean it is ok, how would you feel about an ancestral that only drew 2. It would be very different from the one we have now, but I bet it would be restricted and played everywhere just the same.
A - no it won't be played in every deck for the reasons above listed
B - your example is proving my point. Thoes 2 cards are very similar with the same restrictions, just one is strictly better at doing the same thing. The restriction on this card means it is not doing the same thing. A better comparison to ancestral would be shared discovery or Visions of Beyond which are superficially similar but the restriction changes them drastically enough that you would never call them the same.
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2nd cast and later Omnath can use all the mana, they will all run it.
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less of a target then a sol ring but that card is rarely run in decks because it’s bad politics so mabye your point here is valid.
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