[CMR] Jeweled Lotus
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@thecravenone said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
$150 ugly Black Lotus proxy
My thoughts as well.
I’ll just stick with Blacker Lotus as my proxy, thank you very much.
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Just leaving this here.
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@john-cox well, that's the double-pimped version though. I get your point, but I don't think it counts as a good measure of the card's price.
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They should errata the card for Vintage so you can use it instead of Black Lotus
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@lienielsen That would certainly get around the reserved list. They aren't "printing" a functionally identical card. They'd be errataing a different card to have a similar function.
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@protoaddict said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I think they would because many commander players don’t have $200-$600 for duals and never will.
Again, that does not work. If they backdoored dual lands like this all it would do would be add another dual. The ideal manabase for that deck would likely still want the original dual and the new one and cut something else like a shock land.
I agree, they would need some awkward form of text like "Volcanic Island 2.0 may not be in play at the same time as Volcanic Island," or whatever needs to be done.
That said, this is the closest they have come to toeing the RL line and commander provides a way to do it.
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I'm so confused by this card's existence. In a format where every decent accelerator is banned, let's also print a Black Lotus effect.
This is such money grab.
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@vaughnbros LOL, it is. But then again, it's also a game produced by a company whose sole purpose is to earn the most profits possible.
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@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
I agree, they would need some awkward form of text like "Volcanic Island 2.0 may not be in play at the same time as Volcanic Island," or whatever needs to be done.
I believe they explicitly said they would not do this exact thing.
@joshuabrooks said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
That said, this is the closest they have come to toeing the RL line and commander provides a way to do it.
I would make the argument that I think the Shock lands are functionally less different from dual lands than this is from Black lotus. Reverberate is less different than Fork.
These 2 lotus are worlds apart. This card is questionable in Commander, and some commanders can use it better than others. Black lotus would be useable by every commander and would be a slam dunk is most any competitive build.
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99% of Commander decks will play this, and the other 1% just can't afford the real life cost of the card.
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@protoaddict said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
These 2 lotus are worlds apart. This card is questionable in Commander, and some commanders can use it better than others. Black lotus would be useable by every commander and would be a slam dunk is most any competitive build.
They are worlds apart, this is vastly worse than the black lotus. It will also be played in every EDH deck. Just because it is worse than the power 9 does not mean it is ok, how would you feel about an ancestral that only drew 2. It would be very different from the one we have now, but I bet it would be restricted and played everywhere just the same.
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@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
99% of Commander decks will play this, and the other 1% just can't afford the real life cost of the card.
I don't think they will for any number of reasons other than cost.
1 - detuned decks are a thing. People actively don't play optimal lists for the sake of 'fairness' in this casual format. cEDH is still the vast minority of players.
2 - 4 and 5 color commanders. Omnath does not use this card well at all and would likely want more lands instead. Likewise Atraxa and a number of other popular commanders.
3 - it puts a huge freaking target on your head. Rushing out a turn 1 Golos or Najela in that format is going to turn it from commander into arch enemy really quick.
4 - it won't maintain that price. The collector's versions, sure. Foil borderless oko and great henge are up there already. Standard frame non foil will probably be comparable or lower to other edh staples like doubling season or mana crypt, in which case what grounds do people have to complain about an in print card? They will go back to complaining about the reserve list.
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@botvinik said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
They are worlds apart, this is vastly worse than the black lotus. It will also be played in every EDH deck. Just because it is worse than the power 9 does not mean it is ok, how would you feel about an ancestral that only drew 2. It would be very different from the one we have now, but I bet it would be restricted and played everywhere just the same.
A - no it won't be played in every deck for the reasons above listed
B - your example is proving my point. Thoes 2 cards are very similar with the same restrictions, just one is strictly better at doing the same thing. The restriction on this card means it is not doing the same thing. A better comparison to ancestral would be shared discovery or Visions of Beyond which are superficially similar but the restriction changes them drastically enough that you would never call them the same.
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2nd cast and later Omnath can use all the mana, they will all run it.
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less of a target then a sol ring but that card is rarely run in decks because it’s bad politics so mabye your point here is valid.
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People playing untuned decks, and banning the card in their local play group is kind of a silly argument. The card is busted. Does it maintain value? Probably not, but the preorder is $129 and the card is not playable in any other format.
The Vintage equivalent of this would be a Black Lotus whose mana can only be used to cast Legendaries.
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@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
The Vintage equivalent of this would be a Black Lotus whose mana can only be used to cast Legendaries.
Yes and outside of lurris still being in its original form this card would be pretty trash in vintage, to my point the restriction changes it a lot and leaves it only superficially like lotus.
I still think it is a mistake for that format, i just think saying this is some loophole around the reserve list is a bad argument.
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If we had say:
A lotus for Enchantments.
A lotus for Legendaries.
A lotus for Creatures.
A lotus for Artifacts.
A lotus for Instants/Sorceries.
A lotus for ...Would that devalue original Lotus? Or do you think there is no limit to situational Loti that will reduce the value of the OG?
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@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
If we had say:
A lotus for Enchantments.
A lotus for Legendaries.
A lotus for Creatures.
A lotus for Artifacts.
A lotus for Instants/Sorceries.
A lotus for ...Would that devalue original Lotus? Or do you think there is no limit to situational Loti that will reduce the value of the OG?
No. They would not. Look at how many situational moxen we have, none of them have devalued true moxen. Time walk variants. Time twister variants, of which sone actually are situationally better. The reserve list helps with this.
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The moxen we have don't produce situational mana, they are only able to be activated under certain situations. This is a different type of design.
If we had 5-color mox that could "only" pay for artifacts, that would probably be better than actual moxen in a Shops deck.
If we had 5-color mox that could "only" pay for Instants/Sorceries, that would probably be better than actual moxen in some decks.
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@vaughnbros said in [CMR] Jeweled Lotus:
If we had 5-color mox that could "only" pay for artifacts, that would probably be better than actual moxen in a Shops deck.
If we had 5-color mox that could "only" pay for Instants/Sorceries, that would probably be better than actual moxen in some decks.How good would the mox that could only pay for commanders be in vintage. Think it would ding prices here? I mean we have Mox Amber and that has not taken the world by storm.
Could you create situational moxen and loti that hurt the value of true moxen and BL? Yea, conceivably. It is more likely that anything of that power level would not sneak through, and even it it did it is far more likely to me that it would drive UP the price of the stuff on the reserve list, not lower it, Like Mox Opal did. Mox opals power is largely derived from the existence of other moxen. If you made a better mox for Workshops or for mostly spells decks, I have to believe it would replace Opal or off colors, which has always been the case in the format and has not usurped the dominance of these cards.
