Initiative to help save Paper Vintage
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@lienielsen I play a lot of Modern, and I just invested very heavily in MH2. The I only play Modern in paper and most of the Modern players that I know only play in paper.
My point about the FOWs isn't the cost but the value to the player.
All formats get stale at some point and players get bored by the format. If Modern players looked to Vintage to spice things up then that would be great for them and the Vintage community.
The overlap of Modern and Vintage is actually at an all time high thanks to Modern Horizons and Modern Horizon 2. If FOW was like $40 then I would say most Modern players would just grab a playset and dabble in Legacy and maybe some Vintage.
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@caron I have been trying to get a PS5 since it released, and I refuse to buy from the secondary market.
I highly doubt Wizards will print enough to meet the actually demand of Reserved list cards like dual lands. It's not the speculation, it's the demand.
Like your PS5 example the demand is very high the actual amount needed to soothe that demand requires a very large output of product.
If Wizards were willing to print cards at that quantity then fetch lands and force of wills would be much cheaper. The demand is there but the prices just keep going up.
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@daniel-worobec
I think this whole thread assumes it has to do with availability of cards and monetary investment.
I own 8 power cards, all the blue dual lands, time vault, library of alexandria, 4 mana drains (LoA and drain aren't even good anymore, wth?) and a bunch of other expensive vintage cards. Yet I think the last time I even bothered sleeving up a vintage deck was in 2016 or so. That lasted about two weeks before I tried my hand at legacy instead which I honestly enjoyed more.I think the sad fact is that many of the people who own the cards and could play vintage just decide not to. That is at least the case for me. I just don't think any of the tier1 decks look fun to play with (or against for that matter). I don't really see this changing anytime soon (If ever) so i'll be sticking to oldschool formats for the foreseeable future.
Taking a look around this forum I barely recognize any usernames either.
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Hear me out on this but would it be possible for us to come up with our own sanctioning tournament body apart from Hasbro?
I just want things like alternative venues, alcohol, hell maybe if we make enough money we can do our own concert series.
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@magicmike you could run a tournament right now at an alternate venue, with alcohol, sanctioned or not. I've been to lots of Vintage events like that. Is there anything particular you'd want to get out of a sanctioning body that you think is holding you back?
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Really outside of controlling the rules, B&R, proxy count, and requiring entry to be 18/21+ there's not much else.
I get it, yeah, this would start as a localized thing but there's potential money being left on the table in addition to doing a service to the vintage community by opening play to those who do not have rhe resources to get reserved list cards.
That's the main reason to be honest
When I was 18, it was still possible to get into Vintage. Now that prices have skyrocketed there is no other recourse for players that were in my shoes to obtain competitive listings. I busted my tail to get what I got and I want to see those players get that same opportunity to build the decks of their dreams.
If wizards cannot enable that then we really ought not support them and their tournament scheme. It's a question of ethics and decency.
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Going back to the original posting. If I ever play Paper Vintage again, it will have to allow unlimited Proxies. That was already a big contention point 10 years ago, but for me, more proxies = more players that can afford to play competitvely, and thus a healthier scene. We did no proxy tournaments, and it gets old real fast always playing against the same 10 people with power and a few people with no power who never come back after being annihilated.
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Now skip to the present, and think about the price of cards. Back in the days, theft was rare, but not unheard off. In that time, a thief stealing a juicy backpack could get 5-10k of stuff if they were lucky. Now a fully powered deck can easily reach 50k, not counting the trade binder. I would be completely paranoid about carrying that with me when it can so easily be stolen, and you lose 2 years of income in the blink of a eye with little to no recourse.
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After perusing through the prices on Ebay and TCGPlayer, you are absolutely right. I'm just going to take what's left of my collection, throw it in a safe and just print out every deck I own. It's not worth the losses even to play legacy at this point.
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@wagner I first read this post and thought, it makes sense to think no one will carry expensive cards around anymore then I remembered that I attend SCG Con in 2018 and played Old School events in 2018 and 2019 with a fully powered deck and nothing bad happened. I actually had fun. I agree that there is a risk and people need to make their own decisions.
Also, Modern decks on average are over $1000 each, should I demand that those tournaments and FNMs are 100% proxy?
People will play proxy Vintage because I believe that is the only realistic option at this point to get players to attend but saying it is because of the risk of thief is a bit much for me. I have seen Commander decks that cost more that 5K at this point so it is really up to the individual.
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@moorebrother1 Massive MASSIVE difference between a 1k Modern deck and a 50k Vintage deck.
And of course it's up to everyone to choose, I'm saying the risk to reward for me is nowhere close enough. I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself while always having to be extra careful about where everything is at all times.
