@grr Congrats on the win. I really liked playing White Eldrazi before the Thorn restriction. I'm looking forward to trying out your list.
Seems like you have a lot of tools against PO and blue decks in general. I'm wondering:
- If you've played against Ravager Shops and what you think of that matchup.
- Did you miss the maindeck Containment Priests? The last list I played had trimmed those to two and my feeling has been that we either want to stay at 3-4 (both for dredge/oath and to maximize the combo with Displacer) or cut them completely as without Displacer it just doesn't pull its weight vs. normal matchups.
- Did you have any problems with the white source count, especially for the Stony Silences? I've played Null Rods in the past but maybe that's wrong now with more Hurkyl's in the format.
- Did big Thalia pull its weight?
- I count 31 mana sources, which is 1-2 more than I'd expect. Do you think this is the right number? How do you feel about 2 Horizon Canopies?
Ten-Ten last edited by
@grr Holy light seems good in a Empty the warrens or Pyromancer heavy meta. Any one-sided board wipe is worth considering in Eldrazi decks of all variations.
gRR last edited by gRR
@DrStreetmention : Thanks!
- I've played against a peculiar Ravager MUD version (with Traxos, Voltaic Servants, Forgemasters and Time Vault!) in Top 4 and I won easily, but that was because he was manascrewed in both games. I feel that we should be slightly favored anyway; maindeck Stony Silences and Big Thalia makes life difficult for them, and Displacer is a nightmare for his +1/+1 creatures (Ravager, Walker, Ballista and even Steel Overseer) even without maindeck Priests. I replaced Spheres, Thorn, Chalice and 1x Thalia GoT for 3 Kataki and 3 Containment Priest, but didn't see any of them in match 2.
- I didn't really miss maindeck Priests; there is almost no Oath in our meta (although this time 2 of my friends showed up with Show Oath) and exactly one Dredge player, so I preferred to focus in beating Paradoxical builds. And as I said earlier, against MUD, Displacer alone is good enough a lot of times.
- About the white sources: yes, this might be a problem. I lost Game 2 of the finals against Paradoxical Storm with Thalia GoT, Stony Slience and Kataki in hand and no white source. Anyway I prefer Stony Silence to Null Rod because is way too difficult to remove it (no Hurkyll's, Abrade, By Force nor Smelt). I'm considering replacing an off-color Mox for Lotus Petal to increase the white mana count, but I'm still not sold on it.
- Yes, Thalia HC is great. When you are on beatdown mode, the fact that opponent's creatures enters the battlefield tapped is invaluable. And it takes three full turns for them to actually get mana from the fetchlands. And is a 3/2 with First Strike, so even her numbers when we go aggro are huge.
- 31 sources is a lot of mana, but I'm playing Stonies, Spheres, Thorn and Thalias, so I don't wanna fall under my own taxing effects. Canopy would be a good idea to consider, but I feel comfortable with my 5 basic Plains (and sold my 2xFoil signed Canopies some time ago )
@Ten-Ten : The problem is that Holy Light cost 2W and I won't side out any of my taxing effects when playing against EtW/Pyros, so it will probably cost even more. And I want to be proactive, deploying threat after threat, so it will be difficult to hold 2W+ mana for Holy Light. So the idea is that the opponent won't be able to play so many tokens anyway.
EDIT to list my matches on the tournament:
- Round 1 lose (WLL) vs Jeskai Mentor, on the draw 1st game
- Round 2 win (WW) vs Leovold BUG, on the draw 1st game
- Round 3 win (WLW) vs Jeskai Mentor, on the draw 1st game
- Round 4 win (WW) vs Paradoxical Mentor, on the draw 1st game
- Round 5 ID vs Show Oath
- Top 8 win (WW) vs WUBG Beatdown, on the draw 1st game
- Top 4 win (WW) vs Traxos MUD, on the draw 1st game
- Final win (WLW) vs Paradoxical Storm, finally on the play 1st game
Total: 6-1 in matches, 13-4 in games.
@grr Thanks for the reply!
My mulligan strategy for this deck is that any hand without a white source has to be otherwise very strong in order to keep it. I've tried Lotus Petal before and it was ok but if I remember correctly I was less dependent on Null Rod/Stony Silence before Thorn was restricted. What I really want is exactly 1 (or occasionally 2) basic Plains in a game and that's it. But I really do want that one. I had experimented with Smuggler's Copter before for flying over board stalls as well as filtering but this version feels so reliant on Stony Silence that I don't think that's the right direction anymore.
I managed to play six matches with this list (with Swords subbed in for Holy Light) online last night. They were just Tournament Practice Room matches and there were some rogue-ish matchups but I did win all of them, so that's good. In a nutshell I beat:
- Oops All Spells
- Traxos Shops (with Tangle Wire and, I suspect Null Rod although I didn't see that)
- Jeskai Control
- a strange blue deck with Ancient Tomb, Mox Opal and Tinker
- 5-color Thieves
- Esper Outcome
Every match went to three games except vs. Shops. When this deck works and you resolve two or three disruptive permanents it's amazing and when they manage to deal with those and you draw all lands it just feels so bad and they vintage you.
Anyway, I really liked the Spheres, Stony Silence over Null Rod and cutting the maindeck Priests. I want to test more aginst Ravager Shops, especially.
ssasala last edited by
I feel like anytime anyone says they are favored over Shops hasn't tested the matchup enough. Basic Plains are great in the matchup. I will have to do some testing with Spheres.
I think in preparation for EW I recommend putting Priests back in the 60. Dredge and Oath are inevitable matchups in sanctioned magic.
Nice job on the finish. Did you ever try Serenity in the sideboard?
Sovarius last edited by
@drstreetmention Unrelated sorry, but what was the 5c Thieves like? I haven't heard of a list but if you know it exists and can point it out i would appreciate it.
@sovarius I hadn’t seen it before but it seemed like Grixis Thieves plus Mentor. He had Key/Vault and Tinker/Blightsteel and, at least after board, Balance. I don’t know what the green was for but at one point he had one of each blue dual plus Academy out.
Sovarius last edited by
@drstreetmention Leovold comes to mind. I played 4c control at EW last year with Dack/Thief shell (no tinkerbot and keyvault packages so i don't want to call it thieves, heh)
@sovarius leovold makes a lot of sense. That’s one greedy deck right there.
gRR last edited by gRR
@DrStreetmention yes, I tend to ship back any hand without any white sources, unless it is explosive enough (Turn 1 TKS, Spheres+Wastelands or the like). About Lotus Petal, I think I'll try it next tournament instead of Mox Sapphire: if we have Stony SIlence in play it will be as bad as any mox; but again, if we have Stony Silence, it means that we had white mana already.
About mulligans, I felt that I mulliganed a lot (8 times in 17 matches, one of them down to 5, though I won these). I'm not sure it that's inherent to the deck or if I was just unlucky with my opening seven. Sadly, I didn't track which hands didn't keep.
"They vintage you". I like it
@ssasala you're right, I haven't tested so much against Shops (I sleeved the deck and take it to the tournament without any testing TBH), and I was lucky in my Top 4 matches; probably if they start explosively we will have a bad time. I'm sure we can fight back, though, as we can also cripple their manabase with strip effects and Stony Silences and play big creatures, like they do.
About Priests in the SB, that was mainly a meta call; Catalan Vintage League is an endless ocean of blue decks (Jeskai and Paradoxical builds being a 60-70% of the field), so I felt Priests were not needed maindeck. If your meta is more healthy, maindeck Priests are great for sure (though I'm not sure what would I side out to make room for them).
I haven't tested Serenity yet; I don't feel comfortable with so many non-creature White cards (against Shops post-board, I like to play only lots of mana, as much creatures as possible and Stony Silences) . But if the next matches against MUD go bad, I'll try it for sure.