Some Storm Tech



  • Here's a real quick post of some of my thoughts concerning Storm and what new cards I've been trying.

    Kolaghan's Command

    This is the perfect upgrade to Rushing River in a deck that wants to deal with hatebear and artifact combinations. Rushing River is clearly more versatile in terms of what permanents it can remove, but Kolaghan's Command is more versatile in the types of other applications the card can be useful for. I haven't played too many games with it, but the writing is kind of all over the wall. Anyway, Rushing River is always a (-1) card advantage, while Command is always a (+1), allowing Storm to play more of an attrition game if its pilot chooses. Though I would still have a Rushing River in the sideboard so that any complicated board state can always be solved.

    Pack Rat

    I had been operating under my own generalization that 1 Pack Rat in the board is all I'll ever need, however, I've been so continuously impressed with this card to the point of playing 1 Pack Rat in the maindeck and 2 in the board. It's really great against any Thorn of Amethyst deck (Really any creature is), but Pack Rat just meshes really well with the Storm shell due to all the mana and card draw available. It ends games quickly and often the opponent just doesn't have an answer for it.

    Plague Spitter

    It's no secret now that Thrashing Wumpus has been a powerhouse in the sideboard of Storm decks. Mostly because of the Pestilence ability but also because of the 3/3 body. In advocation for Plague Spitter, the 3/3 body isn't worth the Dark Ritual you need to cast the Wumpus. Getting to 5 mana is too vulnerable to disruption. The only relevant and commonly played hate-bear that isn't killed by Plague Spitter is Ethersworn Cannonist. (Unless they want to attack into the Spitter) This brings up another aspect of Plague Spitter's ability that can actually close out games: Your Ancient-Tomb-Tapping or Cannonist-playing opponent may not be able to afford a stalemate board position because both players will be taking 1 damage per turn.

    Thrashing Wumpus had also been an incredible asset for defeating Grixis Therapy decks. Pre-board, the Grixis Therapy player should win almost every time, but post-board the odds are heavily on the side of the Wumpus. Plague Spitter is just a strict upgrade to Wumpus in this scenario.

    City of Solitude

    I thought this card was amazing when Steve first started to talk about it, but now that I've played with it for a few events, I feel comfortable leaving green out of my deck for the time being. Its a great card but the mana cost is not great, I don't believe its extremely impressive most of the time; although it can be really great about 10% of the time. The opportunity cost is too high for only a slight upgrade to Defense Grid. Play Wheel of Fortune. (and Kolaghan's Command and basic lands)

    Eldrazi

    This deck is no challenge for Storm. Its less prison (than 2015 Shops) and more vanilla beatsticks instead. A few Hurkyl's, a Kolaghan's Comman, a Rushing River, some Pack Rats, and some Plague Spitters deal with this deck quite easily. The Eldrazi deck's best common play against Storm is turn 1 Thorn of Amethyst; 1 Thorn is simple to defeat. If they continue to compound the Thorns with more Thorns, Thalias, or Metamorphs, then just go for Pack Rat. If they don't compound the Thorns, then they are most likely going for beatdown. In this scenario, just deal with 1 Thorn and then combo off.



  • I'm not an experienced storm player at all but Pack Rat does look nuts to me. The clock on the rats is so much quicker than people think if they aren't used to doing Pack Rat Combat Math.



  • Ever since the apparition of the white eldrazi deck, I was looking for a way to tweak my storm sideboard to adress the matchup.
    After testing I identified two approaches:

    Sideboard:(With tinker and memory jar maindeck + 6 Duress/Grids)
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Rebuild
    1 Sphinx of the Steel wind
    1 Thrashing Wumpus
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Extirpate
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Massacre
    2 Rushing River

    Sideboard: (With 8 Duress/Therapies/Grids maindeck)
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Rebuild
    3 Pack Rat
    1 Ravenous Trap
    1 Extirpate
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Massacre
    1 Rushing River

    Great to see someone else come to some of the same conclusions independently, solidifies the ideas.


  • TMD Supporter

    Tinker/sphinx deals with edrazi well and also mentor since they shouldnt be keeping in plowshares against you. Another thing: swap duress for thoughtseize and you can play elephant grass in green to buy time



  • have you tried Thing in the Ice?

    it blocks, it attacks, it bounces things.

    playing scab delver against storm at NYSE, my opponent dropped 2 Things game 2 and I just had to auto-scoop.



  • @mediumsteve

    I've tried Thing in the Ice very briefly. The thing about the Thing is that it requires your primary strategy (of chaining spells together) to still be functioning. So while TiTi may be pretty good in situations like the one you experienced, it may not be exactly what a Storm deck needs to win while its primary strategy is being attacked. Tinker-Robot and Pack Rat both operate outside the realm of casting spells so they're more reliable as alternate win conditions.

    Post-board, with TiTi (against some Thorn/Hate-bear deck), what instants and sorceries are left in the deck?

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Dark Petition
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    X Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Timetwister
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    1 Tinker
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Cabal Ritual

    Then there are a few other optionals such as Mystical Tutor, Time Walk, Mind's Desire, etc.

    Once you side out the Duress effects and the Probes, there really aren't too many instants and sorceries that can be played; There aren't any Gushes or Preordains to ensure a constant cycle of instants and sorceries.

    That's just my opinion. I could be undervaluing TiTi quite a bit since I have not played many games with it, so I'd love to hear from anyone who plays TiTi in Storm.



  • This is a really informative, well stated and all around great thread. Thank you.



  • @desolutionist Titi is just too cute, in the end it's too much work in the situations where you cant cast instants and sorcery (which means you could likely be playing some bounce or sweeper and go off anyway). Pack rat seems much better in the situations where the hate is just too hard to answer and is still fast enough to race an average eldrazi draw.

    I guess everyone could post their own insight about storm in this thread, seeing as the information and tech about the archetype are so slim and hard to find.

    Thoughts on storm:

    • I like having 3 cabal rituals maindeck vs 13rd land to maximise dark petition on turn 1 and in the late game.

    • Time walk really isn't that great in the deck, it can easily be cut.

    • Tinker Jar is better with less dack fayden, also Tinker can function as a protection spell by fetching out a defense grid or baiting out a counterspell, Tinker can also help set up yawgwill or minds desire by fetching for Lotus or LED.



  • Have not tested but I have been thinking of Crush of Tentacles as a singleton in storm. Returns all non-land permanents to each players hands. Which include any jewelry used to power out CoT with surge along with problematic permanents your opponent may have out. Giving you an 8/8 Octopus, Mana, and clearing the field seems superior to Thing In The Ice except against thorn effects. Thoughts?
    Also, is pack rat really that good? Seems like alot of Mana sinking into this even if its over several turns...



  • @Ten-Ten said:

    Have not tested but I have been thinking of Crush of Tentacles as a singleton in storm. Returns all non-land permanents to each players hands. Which include any jewelry used to power out CoT with surge along with problematic permanents your opponent may have out. Giving you an 8/8 Octopus, Mana, and clearing the field seems superior to Thing In The Ice except against thorn effects. Thoughts?
    Also, is pack rat really that good? Seems like alot of Mana sinking into this even if its over several turns...

    In my experience of the matchup, if you are able to cast a 6 mana sorcery or 5 mana + another spell you shouldn't be having any problems. Rushing River (or kolaghan's command as Desolutionist suggested )are usually enough in those games.
    Pack rat is super mana efficient in the matchup, gets down for 2 mana through thorn and requires only 3 mana sources to activate each turn regardless of the number of spheres. If you have never experienced pack rat in combat, let me tell you the beast is quite savage. With turn 2 Rat on the draw I managed to beat a hand of t1 thorn, t2 thalia, t3 TKS, turn 4 smasher on the play. With 3 rats I was able to block the thalia and double block the smasher (going from 6 to 2 life) and from there it was over.


  • TMD Supporter

    @desolutionist I was experimenting with Things in my storm sideboard and I didn't like it. I only brought them in once against a deck that I expected to have aegis of the gods, but your point about flipping it is spot on. Maybe it could be good in a different type of storm build, I'm not sure.


  • TMD Supporter

    I have something about storm I'd like to ask everyone.

    I'd like to know if I'm the only person who sides out one Dark Petition in game two or three in some matches.
    In game two I usually side one out each time because I operate under the assumption that my opponent will be trying to attack my graveyard to stop me from winning with petition. While I have found that it's not usually hard to win through leyline or whatever, the graveyard nukes do turn petition into a bad diabolic tutor and I'd rather not have too many dead cards.
    If I feel that my opponent is not playing leyline or isn't using that much graveyard hate against me I would consider brining the fourth petition back in.
    I'm newer to Storm than many folks in this thread so I'd like to know if this is something other people do.



  • @Islandswamp

    If you expect your opponent is going to bring in Rest in Peace or Leyline of the void it is 100% correct to board one out (provided your maindeck has enough threats, that the loss in consistency will not hurt you that much). These are also the blue matchups where you want to have a somewhat reliable acess to bounce spells as they likely also brough in Arcane lab or canonist.

    Not sure why you would bring Thing vs Aegis, that card does not interact with a storm deck very effectively aside from preventing you to attack their hand. Typically vs Aegis I decide to completely ignore it up until the point where I am ready to win, cards that generate overwhelming resources like Bargain and a large Mind's desire have no problem winning around it, and a yawgwill with extra mana and an extra tutor will do the trick too. Meanwhile you are still under the protection of defense grid.



  • @Macdeath aegis stop the tendrils from being able to target the player so aegis has to be dealt with eventually, unless you are going for a warrens win



  • @letseeker said:

    @Macdeath aegis stop the tendrils from being able to target the player so aegis has to be dealt with eventually, unless you are going for a warrens win

    Yes, I understand you can't target your opponent with the card tendrils of agony when your opponent has aegis on board. My point being that dealing with Aegis is not particularly hard for the deck, since it does nothing to prevent the deck from actually going off. All it does is that you now require some little extra step before casting your tendrils, something that is a lot easier to play around than a card like Ethersworn canonist which just stops you cold from doing anything while simultaneously slowing you down from finding the answer to deal with it.

    Betting on Aegis vs storm is like thinking that a removal spell will win against a Lab Maniac Doomsday pile. Sure it does work sometimes (usually when the other player is pinched on resources anyway), but the better your opponent is the worse this plan becomes.



  • @Macdeath im sorry, i misunderstood your post


  • Administrators

    @Macdeath Aegis is in no way a comprehensive plan, but it does shut off some pretty important cards in Duress and/or Hurkyl's Recall (depending on the matchup). It acts as kind of a force-multiplier for other anti-storm cards you might be running. Without access to Duress, some storm decks (not all) have a really difficult time with Mindbreak Trap, for instance. It stops Gitaxian Probe from targeting the opponent, which forces the Storm player to play more conservatively. It also puts a clock on the table without costing you a non-disruptive turn (though Ethersworn Canonist does that, too).

    Like you said though, Thing is possibly not the best, and certainly not the only, way around those problems.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Brass-Man I only meant that I brought the card in to try it out, and honestly it was mostly due to wanting to see how it would work. It felt really underwhelming. I didn't think it was good to bring in necessarily, but since my time was limited and it was a random practice match I figured i'd experiment and try it.



  • This is just speculation but I think if you step outside the box of Dark Petition and use some other engine cards such as Gush or Burning Wish, Thing in the Ice starts to look like a more appealing option because it could be more reliably flipped with more low casting instants/sorceries.

    Based on what Kevin and Steve were saying I their podcast about the metagame, I'm tempted to play with a TiTi-Storm brew; though it just won't be very much like traditional DPS. It will probably look like Grixis Pyromancer



  • @desolutionist Very interesting... I'm flashing to old Bob tendrils builds. 4x Bob 4x Titi? Is, The Perfect Storm Thing out there somewhere?



  • Of the 4 dailies I attempted to enter this weekend, only 1 had managed to accumulate enough players to fire. I went 3-1 with my version of Dark Petition Storm. I actually feel like I could have gone 4-0 due to a mental error I made during game 3 of match 4 against Egget's Grixis Therapy. I had a Plague Spitter in play and was planning on that going the distance since I had a value Yawgmoth's Will that wiped him of pretty much everything (multiple Duresses). He topdecked into a Fastbond, played it and passed; he was in topdeck mode. I had the opportunity to upkeep Vampiric Tutor (for Tendrils) to cast a mini Tendrils for 6 life. I considered this play because combined with Plague Spitter for that turn, it would have been 9 life, bringing him to the 3-5 life point range; would have put him under serious pressure for using his fetchlands and fastbond activations. I didn't fire off the mini-Tendrils because I reasoned that I should wait until the Tendrils actually kills him. A turn or two later, he was able to kill me with his own Tendrils of Agony via Fastbond activations. He was at 3 life when he won.

    Here's my list, which I've been tuning since the restriction of Lodestone. I wouldn't make any changes now but that doesn't mean I'm not looking to make this deck better. 3-1 is just not acceptable. It felt surprisingly good to play against blue decks in all four rounds.

    Here's the list:

    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl

    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Petition
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Necropotence
    1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1 Mind's Desire
    1 Wheel of Fortune
    1 Timetwister
    1 Tinker
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ancestral Recall
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Duress
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Defense Grid
    1 Rushing River
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    -Sideboard-
    1 Swamp
    1 Ancient Tomb
    3 Pack Rat
    3 Plague Spitter
    3 Ravenous Trap
    2 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Ingot Chewer

    There is no Lion's Eye Diamond in this deck. I started with a stock DPS list, which had LED, and it was one of the first cards I cut. I tried playing it again when Smmenen revealed his UBg list but once again I cut it almost immediately. I've never liked LED in any Storm deck not playing Gifts Ungiven and Recoup. It's often just one more brick in a deck that depends so heavily on getting the right draw.

    I've played with and without Library of Alexandria and I'm pretty fond of having it. It gives the deck more meat; it's comparable to playing Monastery Mentor in a non-Mentor deck such as 2-Card-Monte or Landstill.

    Quick note about Pack Rat/Plague Spitter:

    I usually don't bring these in against Blue decks, but if I suspect Notion Thief, Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, etc. I'll bring in the Spitter. If I sense that my opponent has forgone some of their explosiveness for Storm-disruption, I'll bring in Pack Rats, possibly in addition to Plague Spitter. Some cards that could come out in the blue matchup are the bounce spells, BSC, Memory Jar, Tinker, Wheel of Fortune, and sometimes a Dark Petition or Mind's Desire.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.