[EMS]Thalia, Heretic Cathar



  • We have a new Thalia spoiled!!!

    Thalia, Heretic Cathar 2 W
    Rare Creature - Human Soldier
    First Strike
    Creatures and non-basic lands your opponents control enter the battlefield tapped.
    3/2

    One more mana for a worse effect (but non-symmetric). While the effect is probably worse overall, there are cases where you'll welcome it (in heavy aggro decks it's nice that you opponent creatures enter tapped, specially tokens or Griselbrand). Really decent against fetchlands of course.

    This is not a legend and has better body. Does it have a chance to see regular play? Cannot say at this point, while it does not seem as powerful as old Thalia, it's interesting indeed



  • This card actually seems absurd to me. Root Maze is not a bad ability but the cost has always been that you're playing Root Maze. This is a well costed body with First Strike. This card will absolutely show up somewhere.


  • TMD Supporter

    This card is fucking insane, one sided root maze is just broken on a 3 power creature. I'll play this all day



  • @socialite At 2cc would have been fantastic, but if opponent has already 2 lands in play (or 3) when you resolve thalia, the effect is nowhere as good.

    It makes wastelands better for sure, since now you can kill lands before they get some effect. Bazaar gets hosed. Gushbond does not work at all (unless there are basic islands involved). Storm, doomsday get slower. But that demands playing Thalia ASAP, and it won't be easy depending on the build.



  • I think if you look at this as purely a mana denial card you're evaluating it wrong. 2 generic and a W is a trivial mana cost in this format.

    All things considered it seems like a very reasonable card that would help decks like Mono W Eldrazi deal with an active Mentor which as far as I can tell the deck can't beat.

    Also this creature is in fact a legend.



  • @socialite Or help mentor decks slow down eldrazi decks. A lot of non-basic lands and creatures. This card will be interesting.



  • Forget humans, now we can just play Thalia tribal. It's everything I've ever wanted.



  • Not that it makes a big difference but I am pretty sure she is Legendary.



  • This card seems insane. Played in a mono-white or 5c humans shell. Power this out turn 1 with moxen. Wow....



  • I'm not getting why ya'll are calling this card insane. Three mana is not a reliable turn 1 play for Vintage. It's mid-range territory. Think Tinker, Monastery Mentor, or Yawgmoth's Will. It' s a fine card, but I don't think it plays the same role as other white hatebears play.

    What it does, and quite well, is allow existing creatures to deal a finishing blow. It stops blockers, including mentor tokens, from doing anything the turn they arrive. She also has a twisted form of "haste" since anything arriving after her won't be able to block her that turn. I can see someone dropping it on turn 4 and threatening lethal on the next swing between this and a Thought-Knot Seer; that's 7 damage right there. Pair it up with something hasty next turn and you're really swinging for the fences.

    As far as mana denial goes, I think she's quite a bit worse that Root Maze. Not hitting basics is huge; Gush can still usually get value and fetchlands don't get turned off twice if the controller has a basic to fetch.

    In the age of Lodestone Golem, 3 power with first strike was a big deal. In a world of Mentor and Eldrazi, I'm not sure it really cuts the mustard anymore. I guess it does present a pretty big wall against any creatures that incidentally deal damage, like Dark Confidant or other hatebears.

    I think -- I might be wrong here -- the only 3 casting cost white hatebear that sees play is Vryn Wingmate, right? And, that card has evasion and an ability that stacks better with all the 2 drop taxing effects.

    Overall, card seems totally fine and a role player. Probably playable, totally worth picking up a set. But.. not super amazing. I'd have been more excited if this was a 2/2 for 1W with these abilities.

    Anyway leaving Vintage playability behind and, moving on to the casual / fun category: Card is AWESOME there! I'll be brewing with this little lady in Stasis. A playable, one-sided root maze is just what that silly little best-artwork-ever card needs to really take off! :)


  • TMD Supporter

    People arent realizing that playing this turn 1 or turn 2 can win many matches singlehandedly since blue decks run at most 2 basics and no other real deck plays basics either. The tempo is huge.



  • This card seems really, really good.

    This definitely seems like something that would be run in a deck that has four Ancient Tombs (like White Eldrazi).

    I really like this card a lot.



  • Pretty stoked about this card, and I do think it's a Legend "Legendaria" on the original spoiler...

    As for 3 mana hatebears, I've had some success with Eidolon of Rhetoric in the SB for Storm, and since I run 4 Null Rods I don't have Crypt or Sol Ring to help out, so 3 CMC bears almost never get played. Not sure if this card changes that plan much, but I'm looking forward to testing it for sure.



  • @Soly Not to mention following this up (or immediately preceding this) with spirit of the labyrinth is 6 damage a turn and a lock that most blue decks cannot bounce back from.



  • Also, if you're running this kind of deck, she gives you one extra turn to find the Strip/Waste/GQ for that land they just played...

    Basics are coming back, folks.



  • It utterly crushes Dredge without even needing to interact with the yard. It stops Bazaar, it stops Ichorid and haste Bloodghasts. It stops a dread returned flame kin. It cannot be removed by darkblast without doing a double blast and having 2 mana plus the tax from any other spheres you have.

    That alone makes me think it is a mandatory 1 of in the sideboard of most white lists, since unlike other dredge hate it actually interacts with decks that do not care about the yard.

    I do think it not being legendary is a typo or an incomplete spoiler though.


  • TMD Supporter

    @H. said:

    Not that it makes a big difference but I am pretty sure she is Legendary.

    Seems legendary to me:
    http://66.media.tumblr.com/5814e2506ede3bfb72ffb43a7321da1d/tumblr_inline_o981866d9R1qiypmg_540.jpg



  • Although it seems good against Dredge, I wonder if this is really that great. I mean, is this better than Vryn Wingmare? Against combo, for example, this seems worse. This is NOT Root Maze. Root Maze taps artifacts too. If this tapped artifacts too it would be way, way better in my opinion.
    I could see it as a sideboard option to substitute Vryn Wingmare against creature decks or maybe even Shops.



  • This card actually seems perfect for Legacy Angel Stax and Vintage 5C Stax, and maybe Red Bazaar Shops.



  • card seems insane.

    ps Are they ever going to change the legend rule, so that you can only have one legendary creature with a "pre-comma" name in play? So only one of "Thalia, Lieutenant of Thraben" or "Thalia, Heretic Cathar"? This makes a lot more flavor sense. Sort of how they used to do "Unique" creatures in Legend of the Five Rings, if anyone remembers that (fucking awesome) game. I'm not sure if it's retrofittable at this point in the way creature types were but would be an improvement imo.



  • @xouman i think this would see play since most mana bases are non basic, would work great with the other thalia to slow them down more.


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