This is awkward without land, because I really want to lead with Thorn, but then I shut off my own Sol Ring until the following turn, which thus leaves little pressure (not knowing the thalia is there) on your 2nd turn, so let's evaluate:

Option 1:

  • Turn 1, you lead with Mana Crypt and Mox Pearl, then Sol Ring, and then play the Thorn. In theory, you follow up with Revoker on Black Lotus as that's the scariest turn 1 thing they can do.
    -Turn 2, you draw Thalia, but you cast Loadstone Golem.
  • Turn 3, you cast Thalia.
    :Risks:
  • Your opponent can Mistep the Sol Ring (assuming they keep this in because they're a Mentor deck and you have Plowshares post-board as your only way to effectively stop their Mentor). This leaves you with no turn 2 play (again, not knowing aboutThalia).
  • Your opponent Forces your Thorn. I think this is a pretty fine situation for you, as you follow up with Golem if they don't Vintage you on their turn 1, after removing 2 cards from hand.
  • They do both the above. You're in a WORLD of hurt now.

Option 2

  • You lead all the way with Lodestone.
    Risks:
  • They Force lodestone. You have a Thorn + Revoker to follow up (and then draw Thalia for the real spice)
  • They allow it to resolve, then play a mox or two, plow it etc, or just get ahead of you on mana.

There's other options, But I think the two I outlined are the two most reasonable.

I would go with the following line:

Mana Crypt, Mox Pearl. Sol Ring. Regardless of Mistep or not, I play Thorn. If it isn't mistepped and Thorn isn't FOWed, I play Revoker on Lotus, and then follow up my turn 2 with Golem. Basic @Twaun007 Shops Philosophy applies here: I always want to do 2 disruptive things on Turn 1.

If they Misstep the Sol Ring, Thorn gives them a very small shot of just doing Vintage things on their turn 1.
If they Force the Thorn, Revoking Lotus gives them a very small shot of just doing Vintage things on their turn 1.
If they Misstep the Sol ring AND force the Thorn, their 4 Card hand + Draw Step gives them a very small shot of just doing Vintage things on their turn 1.

7th card was wasteland?! That opens up a ton of plays, but here's mine:

Mana Crypt, Mox Pearl, Thorn. Wasteland, Sol Ring, Revoker on Lotus.
Turn 2, Draw Thalia. Tank. Tap Pearl and Crypt, play Thalia. Tap Sol Ring and Wasteland, Play Lodestone Golem.

It's Vintage, so you're playing the good ol' game of "does he have force?"
Does he have force? You might lose.
Does he NOT have force? He's fucked.

last edited by Guest

@Soly said:

7th card was wasteland?! That opens up a ton of plays, but here's mine:

Mana Crypt, Mox Pearl, Thorn. Wasteland, Sol Ring, Revoker on Lotus.
Turn 2, Draw Thalia. Tank. Tap Pearl and Crypt, play Thalia. Tap Sol Ring and Wasteland, Play Lodestone Golem.

It's Vintage, so you're playing the good ol' game of "does he have force?"
Does he have force? You might lose.
Does he NOT have force? He's fucked.

You should know Soly - I was playing you. 😉

Now here's an interesting twist I thought of and one I'd like to really hear some thoughts on. Instead wasteland, that 7th card is black lotus.
Assuming all your mana resolves do you lead with LSG to bait the FoW or lead with thorn to bait? My initial gut says bait with thorn then drop golem and smash face. BUT, here's 2 things to consider: Golem will affect most of the rest of your deck making your eldrazi and white creatures 1 more, thorn won't. Golem is more susceptible to hate like StP. So if you lead with thorn and it gets forced you can easily lose your lock piece to a 1 (now 2) CC card. But if you lead with golem and it gets Forced the thorn will essentially be 1 sided and is more likely to stick around longer. Personally I think in this environment of heavy creature removal you bait with the LSG.

last edited by Khahan

Golem can win the game on it's own, so you lead with Thorn ALWAYS, and resolve Golem. If he forces Thorn, you're fine, if he doesn't force Thorn, you'll Probably win the Game with the wasteland before he stabilizes.

I thought that was the game you're referring to. And for the record, it wasn't Mentor/Fow... I only have 1 Mentor. It was Hodge-Podge-of-Creatures+Gush. It was also 5 color.

@Soly said:

Golem can win the game on it's own, so you lead with Thorn ALWAYS, and resolve Golem. If he forces Thorn, you're fine, if he doesn't force Thorn, you'll Probably win the Game with the wasteland before he stabilizes.

I thought that was the game you're referring to. And for the record, it wasn't Mentor/Fow... I only have 1 Mentor. It was Hodge-Podge-of-Creatures+Gush. It was also 5 color.

Very true and I really liked that decklist. But I didn't know any of that at the time. Based on what I had seen I assumed it was a mentor based gush deck packing FoW and StP's. It turned out to be packing those and other removal for me to deal with. This is the game you ended up scooping early to when after getting thalia and I think lsg and a chalice at 1 on turn 3 or 4 you scooped.
We had another game where I had a similar string of cards early on that I lost when you StP'd a creature, forced one and hit my golem cast thru caverns with MBT then hit a gush and treasure cruise to reload your hand.

@Khahan i'd answer before knowing other opinions. I'd open with pearl into sol ring. If countered,i play crypt, otherwise it stays in hand. Play thorn.
T2: play crypt if it was still in hand. Play revoker for any mox opponent played or lotus, but not jace. And then play thalia if sol ring was not countered.
T3 golem

I am super greedy. I would go Pearl into Crypt. If they both stick I would try for the Sol Ring into Thorn. if the Ring eats a MM I will crypt into Revoker most likely.

I hate playing blind revokers T1 on the play. After opponent deploys his initial hand, I assume he has no moxen and then I feel better if I play a revoker naming whatever, but if there is the chance that he is keeping a stone in hand, my revoker loses 70% of its sense. Besides, in a hand with thorn and golem (and playing thalias), shutting moxen is awesome.

T1: Mana Crypt / Mox Pearl / Thorn / Sol Ring, Wasteland
so I can play Revoker on any Mox Opponent played + Golem

Now we draw Thalia:
If opponent played any mox: revoker + golem

if not, thalia + golem

last edited by CwaM

I play all of my artifact mana and cast Thorn. I hold back both Wasteland and Revoker.

I don't need Wasteland in play this turn to cast both Golem and Revoker next turn, and holding Wasteland back might entice a greedy opponent into playing or fetching a dual land, which will be catastrophic for them.

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