White (Semi) Humans in the current meta



  • When I mentioned cutting Thalia, I hadn't noticed that you relied on land destruction as much as you did (3 Wasteland). My builds typically have Strip Mine only, so big Thalia is better for you than me.



  • Is Yixlid Jailer worthy of consideration in Esper Bears?



  • @dshin said in White (Semi) Humans in the current meta:

    Is Yixlid Jailer worthy of consideration in Esper Bears?

    Containment Priest > Yixlid Jailer. Enough said.



  • I've had a ton of success using this deck and similar decks for a while now. I've been happy with Recruiter and absolutely loving Sanctum Prelate. I'm sure @BazaarOfBaghdad can give me some pointers on what to improve, but I'd be confident showing up with this at a tournament. The only matchup that's been particularly rough is Standstill, and almost everything else feels like a bye.

    Edit: Yeah, Standstill is actually impossible. The only way I can even imagine beating that is playing bad cards like Aether Vial, and that's just taking out slots for other decks.



  • @Water0 said in White (Semi) Humans in the current meta:

    I've had a ton of success using this deck and similar decks for a while now. I've been happy with Recruiter and absolutely loving Sanctum Prelate. I'm sure @BazaarOfBaghdad can give me some pointers on what to improve, but I'd be confident showing up with this at a tournament. The only matchup that's been particularly rough is Standstill, and almost everything else feels like a bye.

    Edit: Yeah, Standstill is actually impossible. The only way I can even imagine beating that is playing bad cards like Aether Vial, and that's just taking out slots for other decks.

    Interesting list. I'm playing something similar (although with a slightly different approach) alongside my WGB list, but in my experience WGB is better. You get Confidants, Deathrites, Decays, Gaddock, Kambal and Pridemages which I think is more than enough to make up for the, admittedly, fragile mana base.

    Edit: WGB also has a much better matchup against Landstill which I would say is almost even (only slightly unfavorable).

    A few questions regarding your list:

    1. Can you elaborate on the Recruiters? You don't play many silver bullets so are the Recruiters really worth it, considering that they're slow and that you'll often naturally draw into your answers/threats?
    2. Has the dissynergy between Stony Silences and the equipment been an issue? On paper it's a nonbo, but I could imagine that you would prefer and pick one strategy over the other in each game. How often does it come up that you choose the wrong approach (ie. going for Stony when you should have gone the equipment route or vice versa)? Would it be better to have the Stoneforge package in the sideboard?
    3. You play 10 colorless sources. How often do you experience that to be too little to support Displacer? I play 12 colorless sources and even then it does come up that you don't have colorless to activate Displacer. You should definitely be playing Mana Crypt in my opinion. I would probably cut the Sol Ring (or one of the off-color moxen if you want more colorless manasources).

    Cheers!



  • @Griselbrother Concur on Mana Crypt > Sol Ring. The first let's you play 3-drops on turn 1; the 2nd prevents your 2-drops on turn 1. How did your weekend go? Here are some things I'm testing for fun.

    • I've started testing MD Abrupt Decays and Deathrite Shamans, and like them.

    • I've been playing a singleton Murmuring Bosk, and that's turned out well as a EOT fetch target (but the fact that I've had so many EOT fetches is a bad sign).

    • To accommodate Decays, I changed the manabase , but had to reduce 3-Priest/4-Displacer to a singleton Priest. I am testing, however, Vamp, Demonic, and 2 Worldly Tutor to find that Priest. On the positive side, I gained 4 Horizon Canopy to smooth out draws.

    • I'm also testing a singleton maindeck SFM and a Jitte and Skullclamp to see if the draw there can approximate a reduction in Confidants. With all the x/1s and Legendary creatures, it seems like Skullclamp could be alright, but I haven't drawn it yet.

    • Sideboard singleton Magus of the Moat with fliers or Deathrite plus tutors still seems like a way to go vs. Eldrazi, with Prelate on 1. It's certainly takes up less space, anyway.



  • @Griselbrother Bob is cool (and I've even made BW to play him and Kambal), but I could not be less interested in the other cards besides Gaddock Teeg. DRS does not disrupt the opponent, I've never thought "hey, lets destroy my manabase just to play Abrupt Decay which doesn't even help," and I don't see why I'd play Pridemage over Relic-Warder except against Standstill.

    1. I could play more "silver bullet" cards I suppose, but I've rarely felt like I needed any. Uncounterable DT that can even be flickered with Displacer seems like a good addition to a deck to me, but what do I know?

    2. Never been an issue. If Stony Silence is shutting them down hard, I have plenty of other dead draws.

    3. I feel like I have more trouble hitting the white mana to cast it than the colorless to activate half the time, and I am not interested in Mana Crypt.



  • @BazaarOfBaghdad: Yeah, that's the reason why Mana Crypt is better than Sol Ring. Also it dodges Mental Misstep which is relevant.

    Magus of the Moat is definitely interesting, but it does require you to play at least some number of fliers (which I personally don't at the moment). It seems good with Prelate @ 1, although Prelate in itself isn't very strong against Eldrazi.

    My weekend tournament went fine. I went 4-1 beating two Mentor (one Gush, one Paradoxical Outcome), Oath and Car Shops, but losing to Landstill in the top 4.

    @Water0: I guess Pridemage vs. Relic-Warder comes down do a question of preference. Personally I prefer having a proactive rather than a reactive answer, but I do see the upsides of Relic-Warder as well.

    On Deathrite: I agree that they don't do much disruption, but they do a little bit. Removing lands when your opponent has Crucible being a pretty good one. Removing stuff to prevent or weaken Yawgmoth's Will, Snapcaster Mages, Delve cards, Jace VP, etc. on top of dealing damage of gaining life. I'll admit that they are rarely a good turn 1 play (except against Shops, Eldrazi and Landstill) but they do set up for some nice turn 2 plays (mainly including Wasteland but also getting down an important 3-drop).

    On Decay: I think you underrate the value of Decay. It's an uncounterable answer to many creatures (it's much better than Swords against Mentor and Pyromancer), Oath, Time Vault, Dack Fayden (although often you can just ignore Dack) and so on. I could see myself going down to 2 maindeck though.

    On Mana Crypt: I think you're making a mistake not playing it, but that's obviously up to you. I just think it's much better than Sol Ring here.



  • I would not consider Deathrite Shaman in a base-white build to the extent I am not playing Abrupt Decay. While not completely sold on Abrupt Decay, I love its theoretical relevance vs. Oath and Mentor/YP, and random stuff. Otherwise, you have to have a good Mentor answer: Thalia, Labyrinth, and Displacer are ok containment, but only inasmuch as there is no StP. Other options include Sudden Shock or Illness in the Ranks, but these are clearly not maindeckable.



  • @Griselbrother

    Abrupt Decay: I really don't have many problems with mentor/pyromancer personally; and if it's already generated a bunch of tokens, AD/Swords/Path/whatever won't save you at that point. Phyrexian Revoker (which I noticed you weren't playing) shuts down some of the cards you brought up and so does Stony Silence. Having a nice, clean answer to Oath is great, but I'd just play BUG Leovold at that point since I feel like it's going to be a better deck (maybe?).

    Mana Crypt: After making my opponents lose to their own Crypt and seeing it kill numerous people, I'm not convinced especially in a deck that is not a combo deck. There are plenty of games that go long, and this deck isn't exactly packing life gain, but that's less of an issue if you have DRS. There are going to be games where Crypt is way better than Sol Ring, but I don't like including cards in my deck that can cost me the game when there are acceptable (and better in some cases) alternatives.

    Edit: After a few play test games thinking about it, Sol Ring doesn't really make a lot of sense since it goes against the philosophy of "play dudes on turn 1."


 

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