Lack of deck primers



  • I have been meandering around the site for a couple of days now and have been wondering about the lack of any kind of deck primers for established archetypes. i've seen several posts about certain decks and several that talk about how each person tunes a particular list but there aren't any actual primer threads. is this because were all lazy and just use the ones on other sites like salvation or the archived ones? shouldnt we have them from and center on a vintage centric site?


  • TMD Supporter

    @snowydude That's a good point. I've brought this up before. I'm not going to use the word lazy, because that's derogatory and I certainly haven't done any. But my MTG time is very limited and a lot of it goes into writing for MTGGoldfish. I would love to see some primers though, even if we just took the old ones from the archive and reposted them and updated them.



  • The primers would be a nice thing to have. They do take time to write though, and I think the crowd here being, in general, more experienced might make them seem like less of a necessity.



  • To be quite honest, I've started writing a primer several times and ultimately stopped because of the fear that I'd spend a lot of time and effort writing the thing only to end up with what would best be called a "typical internet response." Too often online, and increasingly so on TMD, informative, well thought out posts are torn down because of one small problem with the primer. Maybe with this request, I'll change my tune and write some of these.



  • I wrote a lengthy primer on the old TMD on UR LANDSTILL variants. Maybe some day I'll have to do a new one. But yeah many of the best primers are on the old TMD site unfortunately...



  • @thecravenone I wouldn't worry too much about this -- I wrote one of the few primers on the new site, and while I received plenty of feedback (which is welcome and expected) I didn't feel like I was being dogpiled or unfairly attacked.


  • TMD Supporter

    @thecravenone if someone gives you crap, I'll stand up for you. I know firsthand the effort it takes, and I understand what you mean.


  • TMD Supporter

    @evouga good work too.



  • I wrote a Storm primer but it was too long; multiple posts. This forum just isn't set up for that sort of thing, I'd rather see it on eternal central or something. It's still saved on my computer, I plan on revising it one day.



  • @desolutionist is there something preventing us from adding a primer sub catagory to the strategy section of the forum? what do you mean this forum isnt set up for that sort of thing?



  • Well maybe there's a way to do it, but I found it difficult to organize the post so that it wasn't just a huge block of text



  • Gush might get restricted in two weeks. So now is arguably a bad time to write a primer for many decks.



  • @Princess_Power good thing i have a deck that dosnt play gush lol



  • While I'm not necessarily certain what will happen to Gush, Princess Power highlights one of the other issues: the meta is shifting much faster than it used to.

    With the restrictions that touched the workshop pillar alone, martello was injured, handicapped, and might be recovering (chalice restriction hurt its capabilities in the meta of the time, lodestone was at first a huge blow, but there does seem to be some room at the table for the sub-type now though it is arguably less powerful than tks builds).

    Stax variants may have disappeared with the loss of lodestone and the rise of mentor (lodestone was a needed clock aspect for the deck, and smokestack does not necessarily work well against token strategies). while some have tooled around with colored builds, Welder feels a risky in a field of blue decks fighting each other with mental misstep.

    Between restrictions coming down faster, new printings having sizeable impacts, and a metagame that is now morphing on a near weekly basis due to the events on magic online bringing additional large turn-out tournaments to the comforts of home...it can feel daunting to spend a couple of days to write a primer for a deck you know may be obsolete in three months.

    Note: I'm not saying any of the above things are intrinsically bad (my thoughts on most of them are littered around other threads), just offering an opinion as to why primers are less a thing.


  • Administrators

    Genuine question for everyone in this thread, what do you, personally, use primers for, and what do you think other people use them for?

    I want to get a handle on the problem you're trying to solve so I can figure out if there's an alternative approach



  • something that has been brought up before in this thread that i like is having a sub thread for primers, but i would like to expand on this, could we make two subthreads, one for established deck primers and one for new and upcoming deck primers so that if people want to look at established decks they can do that without seeing the brews and vise versa. as to answer your question @Brass-Man i personally use primers as a way to learn about decks, and why certain cards are included or not incuded, and to find similar decks to mine and get ideas as to why card x is better than card y.



  • @Brass-Man I use deck primers first to see if i could enjoy playing a particular deck. while i dont change decks in vintage at all in other formats i like to see if a deck i hadn't considered could interest me. 2nd like seeker said learning about the deck i currently play why any card is included or not included as well as what used to be played but was cut, grim tutor in the old storm deck for instance. sometimes you come across old tech that can inspire new tech or deck variants that merit investigation so they dont just end up forgotten. lastly i like to be able to find the weaknesses of decks that i lose to alot. if im playing shops and never beat dredge its very helpful to go look at the dredge primer so i can see the match from the other side of the table and change what im doing.

    the meta changing rapidly doesnt decrease the need for information on archetypes, in fact imo it increases it greatly. i do not like doing research only to find the data im using is outdated and no longer relavent.

    "Information is a powerful weapon."



  • @Brass-Man just like @letseeker wrote, I use primers to learn about decks. how they work, why and reasoning behind card choices.



  • Something that make be more doable then a written primer is a let's play YouTube style video. You could do a general deck breakdown,show some game highlights for specific plays and strategies, and then organize links on the forums. I follow a bunch of YouTubers for video games (mostly rainbow 6 lately) and I find the videos extremity helpful in trying to improve my game both at the high and beginner levels.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Brass-Man Can we just copy and paste the old primers here as a start and see if anyone wants to make new ones or rework old ones? I like primers too to be honest, even though I usually already know the deal.



  • I think a more helpful way to frame this would be: people who would potentially write primers, what could TMD do to make you more likely to publish your primer? To this end, @desolutionist 's feedback seems important.

    It seems to matter quite a bit less what people would do with the primers, when the primary problem is that they don't exist.


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