[Free Podcast] So Many Insane Plays - Episode 55 - Eldritch Moon



  • http://www.eternalcentral.com/so-many-insane-plays-podcast-episode-55-eldritch-moon/

    Kevin Cron and Steve Menendian review Eldritch Moon for Vintage.

    0:01:00: Announcements
    0:23:20: Shadows Over Innistrad Report Card
    0:31:30: Eldritch Moon: Mechanics
    0:38:55: Coax from the Blind Eternities
    0:48:40: Mausoleum Wanderer
    1:03:15: Unsubstantiate
    1:19:37: Bedlam Reveler
    1:31:55: Eldritch Evolution
    1:50:00: Spell Queller
    2:08:00: Tamiyo, Field Researcher
    2:27:38: Emrakul, the Promised End
    2:39:45: Curious Homunculus//Voracious Reader
    2:52:30: Lupine Prototype
    2:59:35: Geier Reach Sanitarium
    3:11:20: Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    3:24:00: Triskaidekaphobia! (with Tree of Perdition)
    Total runtime: 3:28:20



  • @CHA1N5 said:

    2:08:00: Tamiyo, Field Researcher

    Thanks for the podcast as well as the timestamps!


  • TMD Supporter

    I like that you talked about playing different decks than what you're used to. You can gain ton of knowledge by trying a new deck.

    When I first started playing Vintage I had no idea how to beat a workshop deck. I'd lose to shops time and time again, unless I was playing Oath. Anyway, I eventually bought a shops deck on MTGO and learned it. I never became an expert with Shops, but I learned a ton about what makes it tick and forever after I felt much more comfortable facing a Workshop deck. I'd suggest this tactic to anyone with the means to do so.

    Thanks for mentioning the MTGGoldfish stuff too. I'm glad they're trying to collect more paper results now. Previously they did cover some paper Vintage. The last Vintage champs was covered, bazaar of moxen was covered as well. Now they're willing to publish proxy vintage events too.



  • This thread needs a two-card monte decklist.



  • http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20564&iddeck=157070

    Ben Perry playing Painters
    Deck Name: 2 Card Monte

    Creatures [8]
    4 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter's Servant

    Instants [9]
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    2 Mental Misstep
    2 Pyroblast

    Sorceries [3]
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Tinker
    1 Wheel of Fortune

    Enchantments [4]
    4 Leyline of the Void

    Artifacts [18]
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Grindstone
    4 Helm of Obedience

    Lands [18]
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Mana Confluence
    4 Mishra's Workshop

    Sideboard
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Nature's Claim
    1 Balance
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Defense Grid



  • Thanks Kevin! Now we just get Steve to chime in on what he moved around to make room for opals.



  • Great episode! I also enjoyed the discussion about using different decks to learn an opponent's perspective. Keep up the good work!



  • Great episode guys! But what I really want is: prediction for number of decks featuring: Tamiyo, Thalia, Unsubstantiate, Eldritch Evolution, and Spell Queller!

    I jest. But quite a set for Bant mages. Really looking forward to slinging some of these cards (plus a number that weren't mentioned...)



  • I will never understand how responding to Thalia with Unsubstantiate is a "tempo play."



  • Good listen, thanks for taking the time to record this, it kills a long drive :)

    said:

    Unsubstantiate

    You didn't touch on the use case where the opponent uses some ephemeral mana (Lotus, Ritual, Mana Vault) and can't actually recast the spell for some number of turns. Also ... not the best thing ever but if you Unsubstantiate you can Cabal Therapy the spell away. I think the cards versatility is its greatest strength. You can also Unsubstantiate your own spells to build storm and tokens and not lose the 'countered' card. Still might not be an all-star, but I play quite a bit of Mana Leak and it's very good despite the narrative that it isn't.


  • TMD Supporter

    @wappla because it's slow and low.



  • On the Eldritch Evolution argument. Another important card to consider in such a list would be Grand Abolisher. That card is playable off a cavern and then protects the Evolution from counters. Just think you guys should remember that card.

    -Storm



  • Curious Homunculus should see play I think. I think it may very well see a LOT of play.

    Another important thing to note about this with Intuition is searching up 3 Cabal Ritual and having a Ritual that now costs B that will add BBBB that turn.



  • Great as always! I'm in the middle of hearing it but wanted to comment on a few things already:

    Bedlam Reveler: maybe it could work well with Goblin Welder. I don't know if MonoR MUD could work, because it would lack spells on the graveyard to make Reveler reasonably costed, but Welder is a fine interaction that can generate good CA.

    Unsubstantiate: actually, the card this resembles the most is Venser, Shaper Savant. Venser isn't playable in Vintage, mainly because it costs 4. And another great use for Unsubstantiate is bouncing Supreme Verdict. That's a game winning play most of the times.

    Eldritch Evolution: I guess you almost touched what could make this card great. It can fetch Magus of the Moon to hurt a lot of decks, but it can also fetch Magus of the Moat to shut down Eldrazi, Mentor and Pyromancer from attacking. If Moat is becoming a more popular answer to creature decks, maybe it can be a great answer to have in a toolbox deck. Of course, you'd have to build your deck with flyers like... Mantis Rider :P



  • @fsecco said:

    Great as always! I'm in the middle of hearing it but wanted to comment on a few things already:

    Bedlam Reveler: maybe it could work well with Goblin Welder. I don't know if MonoR MUD could work, because it would lack spells on the graveyard to make Reveler reasonably costed, but Welder is a fine interaction that can generate good CA.

    Unsubstantiate: actually, the card this resembles the most is Venser, Shaper Savant. Venser isn't playable in Vintage, mainly because it costs 4. And another great use for Unsubstantiate is bouncing Supreme Verdict. That's a game winning play most of the times.

    Eldritch Evolution: I guess you almost touched what could make this card great. It can fetch Magus of the Moon to hurt a lot of decks, but it can also fetch Magus of the Moat to shut down Eldrazi, Mentor and Pyromancer from attacking. If Moat is becoming a more popular answer to creature decks, maybe it can be a great answer to have in a toolbox deck. Of course, you'd have to build your deck with flyers like... Mantis Rider :P

    I could also see Eldritch Evolution in a BUG Fishy deck with some number of Tasigur, Hooting Mandrils, and Gurmag Anglers to pump out stuff like Griseltits, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Terastadon, or even like Stormtide Leviathan. Throw in 4 Thought Scour and Deathrite for Mana fixing and you have yourself a little engine that can also probably support Force of Will. JUUUUUUST a thought.

    -Storm



  • Surprised not to see Collective Brutality in the lineup here. It seems quite eternal playable! Vintage is a bit of a stretch but I fully expect it to be played in Legacy Reanimator.

    I also think Bedlam Reveler is better in a Steel City Vault shell than in a Pyromancer shell. You can dump your hand quickly with all the moxen, and wheel effects make discarding instants and sorceries easier. The deck often dips into green for Ancient Grudge flashback, and I could see the deck putting in Traverse the Ulvenwald potentially to find the Reveler or Academy/Library.. This card is also great in Grixis where it fuels your yard for Yawg Will and plays well with discard and Vampiric Tutor effects.



  • Thanks for posting the set review. I'm happy that this set has a large number of unique effects. It makes for a wider range of cards to review, even if in the end very few of them will make it. I'm most excited about Spell Queller, and most terrified of Thalia, so those are my picks for best two cards for vintage in the set. I do agree that Collective Brutality should have been reviewed, especially for some applications in dredge.

    Some constructive feedback I've been considering sharing for a couple set reviews: I don't see the point of the "is this mana cost played in vintage" question you guys begin with. If ancestral was printed at UW I don't think the fact that no cards are played in vintage with that mana cost is going to mean anything. At some point in the review it's of course worth asking if the effect is worth the cost, but that's not exactly the same question.



  • @Winterstar said:

    Thanks Kevin! Now we just get Steve to chime in on what he moved around to make room for opals.

    Heh. I make no claims about whether this is optimal or not, but I've certainly enjoyed this direction of the deck. It's hella fun.

    2 Card Monte,
    Stephen Menendian,
    updated 7.6.16

    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Helm of Obedience
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    4 Mox Opal
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    4 Pyroblast
    3 Goblin Welder
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Demonic Consultation
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Grindstone
    1 Tinker
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mana Confluence
    2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Mana Vault
    1 City of Brass

    2 Defense Grid
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Balance
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Serum Powder

    Cannonist hampers Gush strategies, but also synergizes better with Pyroblast as mainboard disruption than Defense Grid. Since the opponent can only play one spell, Pyroblast with Cannonist in play becomes virtually an uncounterable counter against blue spells.



  • I like your ideas on 2 card monte but I will say the Mox Opal thing isn't new :-P I won a 30 man event with monte a few months back with 2 Opal in the list and then had a t8 performance with it as well.

    I do love your innovation with Ethersworn Cannonist though. That's an excellent idea!!!

    Also, all of my testing with the deck lead me to play Serum Powders main deck. I suppose it's a metagame call since they are often board outs vs the Gush decks.

    Was Enlightened Tutor tested on your end? I love that card in this deck. Although my lists were heavier on defense grids and lighter on rebs. So my e-Tutor often resolved vs Misstep decks



  • Additionally I 100% agree too many players don't branch out and try other decks. I thoroughly enjoy doing that. Over the past 6-8 months I've won or t8 with landstill oath, dredge, hate bears, 2 card monte, and workshop aggro. It keeps my opponents guessing and boy is it fun. So many players get good at 1 archetype and never branch out and that's sad.



  • Great episode guys. Just a few things to note on the power level of some of these cards:

    Eldrich Evolution: i think it is key to note that this card is one of the few efficient green tutors that can be played with an active Gaddock Teeg on the table, and having Gaddock as an option in such a list is huge.

    Spell Queller: i think it's good to recognize, that this counterspell is not affected by the Thalia/Thorns that are running rampant in the metagame, and thus, is able to nail one if the few damning threats such a deck that uses these cards. An opponent opening up on a hand likeTomb, karakas, thorn, thalia, waste, thought knot, X (or many such iterations) often rely on one or two threats to run away with the game. Having a counterspell that is unaffected by tax effects and can nab that higher ended threat while they pray to draw step a natural answer is pretty strong. Such plays also buy the control player time to develop their mana base to fight the spheres and wastes. I think it can be stronger situationally than what people can judge it for on its surface.


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