vintage eternal command brew



  • yo mana drain peeps. so i was thinking as i do on occasion and the thing i thought was
    "i wonder if eternal command is vintage playable." and so i went and found madman shouta yasooka's decklist and started adding vintage cards. and this was the result. i could use some advice on some things as i don't pilot blue decks ever. hopefully we can get past the first comment which will read "why not just play keeper"

    decklist

    //Artifact (8)
    3 Æther Vial
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Time Vault
    1 Voltaic Key
    //Creature (11)
    4 Eternal Witness
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Vendilion Clique
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant
    //Enchantment
    1 Moat
    //Instant (19)
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Cryptic Command
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Flusterstorm
    4 Force of Will
    3 Mana Drain
    2 Mental Misstep
    1 Sphinx's Revelation
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    //Planeswalker (3)
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    //Sorcery (4)
    1 Ponder
    2 Supreme Verdict
    1 Time Walk
    1 Balance
    //Land (15)
    1 Cavern of Souls
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Island
    1 Karakas
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Plains
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Tundra


  • Administrators

    I can't really figure out what you're trying to do here. Have you played any games with the list? do you have any idea what the deck is good or bad against? Do you have any idea what cards are underperforming or over-performing? Do you have any idea what matchups you'd like to improve?

    It's hard for anyone to give you advice without any context. You'll probably get more interesting and useful feedback if you meet people halfway



  • well i managed to goldfish a few games with it but its kind of hard to vintage at will without modo. mostly i was posting it as a concept to see if the community would just shoot down my idea. but also if some card is outright unplayable in vintage blue decks i don't know because i only play storm often and doomsday once. so this is a new venture for me trying to "expand my range" but i still refuse to play mentor so currently its 100% theory crafting a deck on my part. sometimes you just want to put out the list and make sure you haven't gone soo deep down the rabbit hole you lost your mind.



  • Andy made really good questions. Without even playing the deck or something similar, I can adventure few things:

    -Deck is really slow. Probably slower than anything in vintage. There is some countermagic and plows to survive some turns, but it should have problems with fast decks.

    -Manabase seems poor. 15 lands + 3 acceleration (8 should be the minimum here) can work for decks with 80% of cards under 3cc, but here you have quite a bunch of 4cc. Besides only 2 tropicals and 4 eternal witness+cavern. Quite hard. There are vials, but they are pretty fragile in a world with misstep, stony silence and artifact hate around.

    -On the other side there is plenty of card advantage, so if you can survive initial turns, it should be a downhill from there. But with so few acceleration, matches can be decided before you can play some relevant spells.



  • @snowydude said:

    well i managed to goldfish a few games with it but its kind of hard to vintage at will without modo.

    Try a program called cockatrice


  • Administrators

    At a super super high level ... basically every card in your list has seen competitive vintage play besides Sphinx's Revelation and Cryptic Command, so you're not completely off-base or anything. Aether Vial in a control deck with only 11 creatures is not something I can remember seeing either, but I can tell you're trying to use it as a mana accelerant - it's hard to say if that's a good strategy or not.

    @xouman is totally right about the manabase, 18 is very few sources. For some frame of reference, you have 8 four-drops in your deck ... when I play control decks with 0 four-drops, I like running 22-23 sources .. if I was running even 3 or 4 four-drops, I would want to have 24 sources minimum. Of course different players are more or less conservative, but 18 is absolutely too few.

    This is the sort of thing you would have figured out very quickly on your own if you had played the deck a few times before asking about it :D



  • @Brass-Man
    so my plan to mana drain into my 4 drops is somewhat difficult to acomplish with 3 manadrains. also people play wasteland as it turns out. cryptic command is actually just uncastable as its triple blue. additionaly drain only makes colorless. something i did not know about drain until it was pointed out to me. i thought i could use it to fix my mana a bit but thats not how it works. T-T

    also am i allowed to dislike jace?
    4 games played that weren't just goldfish games of can i draw cards with the deck.
    and i dislike vault, key, cryptic, and jace is kind of borderline. also i need 1 more flying creature so i can attack through my own moat.

    anyone have a suggestion for a playable flying thing? should i just play another clique or is there some playable creature out there in the world. alternatively i can play red and gain access to other planswalkers and like lightning bolt and reb. currently considering this as i really like casting bolt.

    so changes to the list

    -1 Time Vault
    -1 Voltaic Key
    -1 cryptic
    +1 mox emerald
    +1 trop
    +1 drain

    adding lands as advised because GG, WWU, UUW are horribly far apart.
    *note casting my 4 drops was less of a problem than having the right mana to cast them. maybe its just me but flooding on 18 lands is apparently my special skill.



  • Flying creatures? In your list restoration angel seems really interesting. Snapcaster, eternal, vendillion and venser benefit from coming into play. Spell queller also deserves testing. And maybe trygon, depending on the metagame.

    Jace is great, but under heavy permission or when you can defend it.

    As stated, 3 more mana is ok, but 21 sources are still far from desirable. You really want acceleration with those costs, full acceleration (maybe you can cut crypt. I think that cutting vault and key make sense when you don't play any tutor.

    Change verdicts for resto angels, trade some witness for more moats, take vials off , side balance, and you have a start. But still the list seems soft to pyro/mentor, expensive against mud/eldrazi, slow against dredge/storm... Take a look at this @tattoocek list and get some ideas on a midrange UWx



  • moat is not restricted?
    i dont like crypt in a deck that can't remove it. planing on going more than 3 turns with it in play just seems reckles. i would play off color mox first.
    resto angel spell queller. noted.



  • i feel like this deck could really benifit from gifts ungiven as you have eternal witness and snap caster mage, personally i would cut two snap casters and a witness and just make a draw engine that will draw you into it because having a hand of multiple snapcasters and multiple witness is really bad if you have nothing to get back. i think if you added the gush bond engine of gush, fastbond, and yawgs will it could do some work, using witness to get back gush. also vial would be really weak imho as its slow, and it gets removed easily. if you want that uncounterable effect i would play cavern of souls. i like the idea but i dont think the deck is there quite yet imho but without testing its hard to tell.



  • update on creatures. resto angel actively bad. spell queller somewhere between utterly bonkers and a grizzly bear in draft.

    also in upcoming developments natures claim as a 1 of in the main could be reasonable .
    how many moats is too many moats? cause i really want to play 9 and that is entirely too many.
    here is the current in progress list. sideboard still consists of aprox 30 cards some of which are red because bolt continues to be my favorite card.
    would like to find space for 1 r 2 more lands. not sure how

    decklist
    //Artifact (7)
    3 Æther Vial
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    //Creature (10)
    3 Eternal Witness
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Spell Queller
    //Enchantment (1)
    1 Moat
    //Instant (19)
    4 Mana Drain
    3 Force of Will
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Mental Misstep
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Sphinx's Revelation
    1 Nature's Claim
    //Planeswalker (3)
    3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    //Sorcery (4)
    2 Supreme Verdict
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    1 Balance
    //Land (16)
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Karakas
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Plains
    1 Cavern of Souls


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