Vintage 101: Don't Trust Your Secrets to the Sea


  • TMD Supporter

    http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/vintage-101-don-t-trust-your-secrets-to-the-sea

    "Islandswamp talks about Gush, the Vintage restricted list, and prominent forces in the metagame"

    Here's my latest article, I hope you enjoy it. I spent a good length of time reading older articles and browsing some recent threads on TMD looking for information. I tried to remain as neutral as possible, especially because the issue of Gush has caused some heated debates.

    Thank you to all the people who have gathered metagame information, and to those who have made some excellent posts about the state of the format.



  • Eldrazi is probably the reason gush stayed unrestricted. Wizards really need to take ponder of the list though.



  • @arj Unrestrict Ponder? That's going to help, how, exactly? I fail to see a single benefit to doing that. Not one.



  • @enderfall said:

    @arj Unrestrict Ponder? That's going to help, how, exactly? I fail to see a single benefit to doing that. Not one.

    It's part of the master plan...

    September 26th, 2016 B&R Announcement:

    • Ponder is unrestricted; Brainstorm is unrestricted
    • Thorn of Amethyst is restricted; all cards with the word "Thalia" on them (this includes card name, card text, flavor text) are restricted

    Explanation of Changes - this is Episode V: The Blue Cabal Strikes Back


  • TMD Supporter

    I still have mixed feelings about gush. I like the card, but it's also really annoying how it pushes everything else out of being competitive.



  • Restrict Gush! Free Thirst for Knowledge! Free Gifts Ungiven!

    Restrict Force of Will! Free Cancel!

    Restrict Preordain! Free Impulse!

    Restrict Lodestone Golem! Free Thought-Knot Seer!

    Restrict Dig Through Time! Free Jace, Vryn's Prodigy!

    Let's just continue restricting the best cards in the format until Vintage is indistinguishable from the wildly popular Vintage Cube.


  • TMD Supporter

    @wappla said:

    Restrict Gush! Free Thirst for Knowledge! Free Gifts Ungiven!

    Restrict Force of Will! Free Cancel!

    Restrict Preordain! Free Impulse!

    Restrict Lodestone Golem! Free Thought-Knot Seer!

    Restrict Dig Through Time! Free Jace, Vryn's Prodigy!

    Let's just continue restricting the best cards in the format until Vintage is indistinguishable from the wildly popular Vintage Cube.

    I don't know if this is a reference to what I said or not, but I said in the article that I'm not in favor of restricting more cards. I don't want to play highlander.



  • @Islandswamp Great article! I agree, I don't want more restrictions. I think the format is great right now as it is.

    Granted, I only play paper magic. One of the (many) reasons I don't play on MODO is because people tend to gravitate towards the same 1-2 decks. I don't feel like this happens as much in paper magic. Anyone have any input on this?


  • TMD Supporter

    If you can afford it playing on MTGO is great because you can at least play a little vintage every day. There are paid 2-mans and free play rooms to slum it in.



  • @enderfall It clutters up the restricted list. Preordain is often better and thalia and her boys are back in town.



  • @Islandswamp said:

    I still have mixed feelings about gush. I like the card, but it's also really annoying how it pushes everything else out of being competitive.

    Really, or is it that these engines have been pushed out of the format by a number of contributing factors?

    How do you feel about these match up %s for Big Blue?

    alt text
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    alt text

    "Big Blue" while ambiguous at best hasn't really been a decent choice as far as deck seclection is concerned for quite a long time, in my opinion 2012 was the start of the downfall of the UBx core decks and even wider mana strategies like Bomberman and UW Flash.



  • @arj "cluttering up the restricted list" is as loose of an argument to make as possibly can be. What is the aesthetic significance of a list of cards? C'mon. While I'm being facetious, I've yet to hear a single person say "man, I had no idea Ponder was restricted!". And you are right, in certain instances Preordain is better, which tells me that it should also be restricted. Your argument can go both ways.


  • TMD Supporter

    @socialite in the article I talk about gush being better largely due to the environment it exists in, so it seems like perhaps we're in agreement.
    I don't want any cards restricted, but I also see how playing any blue draw engines seems markedly worse than the other options. Of course, by running a gush deck you're benefiting from playing fewer lands, whereas other options would not work with those smaller Mana bases.
    I just try to give weight to all sides as much as possible.



  • @Islandswamp said:

    @socialite in the article I talk about gush being better largely due to the environment it exists in, so it seems like perhaps we're in agreement.
    I don't want any cards restricted, but I also see how playing any blue draw engines seems markedly worse than the other options. Of course, by running a gush deck you're benefiting from playing fewer lands, whereas other options would not work with those smaller Mana bases.
    I just try to give weight to all sides as much as possible.

    Yet a part of the community was lambasted for not playing expansive mana bases to "counter" the menace of Workshops.

    So if we're in agreement that the environment is the way it is for a number of contributing factors exactly how is restricting Gush going to make "Big Blue" any less dog shit against the rest of the format? To me this action just removes one viable card choice from an already diminished selection in addition it's not going to stop Mentor paired with JVP from running over the inflexible jank that is bound to crop up - so we'll still be stuck with all of the whining.



  • @enderfall

    @enderfall said:

    @arj "cluttering up the restricted list" is as loose of an argument to make as possibly can be. What is the aesthetic significance of a list of cards? C'mon. While I'm being facetious, I've yet to hear a single person say "man, I had no idea Ponder was restricted!". And you are right, in certain instances Preordain is better, which tells me that it should also be restricted. Your argument can go both ways.

    actually when i first found out ponder was restricted i couldnt understand why. i think i might hace actually said "why the hell is ponder restricted?!" my next thought was actually if preordain was fine why is ponder not. i have since come to understand that 1 card deeper is apparently enough for wizards to see it as "too good"
    also play some modern and understand how nice it is to not have ponder outright banned along with preordain. honestly wizards i just want to spend 1 mana to look at some cards here why you gotta be so difficult T-T



  • @snowydude fair. Questioning why is slightly different than not knowing it was restricted. Part of the reason Preordain hasn't been restricted is because Ponder was already restricted when Preordain was printed. Had they both been printed when Brainstorm and Ponder were axed, Preordain would have likely joined them.


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