@Soly said:
@Prospero I completely agree. I'm on the 'restrict Preordain/Probe/Gush' plan just because if you're NOT playing those cards, you're specifically playing to beat them. That's not healthy, in my mind.
pls dont restrict probe. i need those to resolve to draw the card i vamp'd for.
@ChubbyRain I just shaved one misstep for a Flusterstorm, I guess I have to change that back. I figured three could hold down the fort.
I'd almost never play zero Mental Missteps though.
@snowydude The card is idiot-proof, and I don't think 'perfect knowledge' is a good thing in any competitive game.
When my opponent is playing a Gush deck nowadays, I just mentally think of the zoo, because it's just a chimpanzee mindlessly throwing it's shit around. The cards are just too good. Probe is one of those cards.
@Islandswamp There was a time when 0 was correct. This is not that time. I was one of, if not THE biggest fan of playing 0 around champs last year; this year, I'll probably be on 4. And a couple Snapcasters to mainly flash back Mistep.
Personally, I hope that chalice gets unrestricted and not lodestone. Not because it is weaker than the golem, but because it goes into many different decks (also all kinds of fish / blue moon etc.) and is perfect at combating the 1cc menace.
@Soly
i actually care less about the info, which is nice, and more about the pay 0 mana and 2 life draw a card +1 storm. if street wraith counted as a spell i would probably be playing 4 of it
@Soly said:
@snowydude The card is idiot-proof, and I don't think 'perfect knowledge' is a good thing in any competitive game.
When my opponent is playing a Gush deck nowadays, I just mentally think of the zoo, because it's just a chimpanzee mindlessly throwing it's shit around. The cards are just too good. Probe is one of those cards.
Yeah telepathy that isn't card disadvantage is just absurd. Add on all the other bonuses like playing with a smaller deck, adding to storm count, ect., and you have one of the most powerful cards that says draw 1 ever printed.
@Prospero said:
I have tens of thousands of dollars into cards that I can't play, because the pillar I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on can't compete like it could a year ago.
Workshops aren't fine, and they're not going to be fine until something is done, but the majority of Vintage players play blue, so it's only ever going to be an unpopular position among a few people while we watch the rest of the format play their blue spells.
I am not trying to provoke here, but am genuinely curious if you still hold this view. After all, Workshops just won another major event (the Waterbury). It's now won the two largest and most prestigious USA Vintage tournaments held this year, after the restriction of Golem. And, it didn't just win the event, but by at least some accounts (like those @Montolio gave), it was at the top tables all day, and placed multiple players in the top 8 and 9th place).
As I said just 14 days ago:
Personally, I don't feel that it was a flash in the pan. I think Montolio has to be a near odds-on favorite piloting Workshops at any event in the near future... Workshops aren't dead; and they certainly aren't unplayable. If Montolio could win back to back major tournaments just 50 days ago, I think he's more than capable of doing it again.
The only thing I got wrong was that Montolio ended up in 9th (losing a win-and-in), and Will won the tournament instead 
If Workshops "can't compete" or isn't viable (or "fine"), then what would it actually take to prove to you that it is? I mean, it's difficult to imagine how it could have done much better. If Workshops win the Vintage championship will you be convinced? What would it take?
