[KLD] Paradoxical Outcome



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    Well! Looks like Storm has a new toy. If you are using a mana base with the goal of losing to Null Rod / Stony Silence, this is like Gush on steroids. It "costs" 4, but that's deceptive because it also resets any mana rocks you tapped to cast it. If you return a Sol Ring and a few Mox to your hand, it's basically free. I can easily imagine this snowballing, too, since each one you deploy resets your mana for the next time.



  • @MaximumCDawg Hum, I just posted this while you were posting :P
    I'll delete mine and copy here what I wrote there:

    Hum... I know this costs 4, but Storm/Belcher being able to return several Moxen to hand and draw cards at the same time could be pretty useful. I mean, what's the average number of cards you'd need to draw with this for it to be really good? 6? Topdecking this with a board full of Moxen, Crypt, Vault will by itself generate a lot of storm + cards.

    Even playing this on your opponents turn and returning 3 Moxen and drawing 3 can be great because those 3 Moxen will generate storm and now you don't need to keep them in your hand waiting for the storm turn.

    Even Mentor could use this to play their Moxen without caring to hold them to generate tokens later (maybe Mentor doesn't have enough artifacts for this to work, though).



  • @fsecco Hah! Sorry to beat ya to the punch, brother. I'm really enjoying this set- it gives me a very Urza's Saga vibe with all the quirky combo engines in it. It's a Johnny's Dream!

    Anyway, this card seems interesting. Returning mana is good, but I think where this card really shines is in its ability to stack. Like, say you deploy your first one on turn 2 with some moxen and a Mana Crypt. Draw three cards, replay your mana plus new mana you drew. Then cast regrowth / demonic tutor / mizzix mastery / whatever to repeat the process again, only now it's for more cards. And so on. This has all the signs of being a combo engine card.

    Thalia, Guardian of Thraben just shakes her middle finger at it, of course. It gets absolutely crushed by Sphere effects, but hey, what card in Storm does not?



  • This card is absolutely nuts and will be restricted for sure.



  • @JuzamJim I think it would be NUTS in 2010, but nowadays it's just interesting. This card doesn't solve any of the problems Storm suffers from in the metagame -- it compounds them.

    It's an awesome engine card, and I hope someone uses it to good effect, but I doubt its a game changer. Perhaps you jam this in the Blue Belcher decks or big blue combo decks?



  • @MaximumCDawg said:

    @JuzamJim I think it would be NUTS in 2010, but nowadays it's just interesting. This card doesn't solve any of the problems Storm suffers from in the metagame -- it compounds them.

    It's an awesome engine card, and I hope someone uses it to good effect, but I doubt its a game changer. Perhaps you jam this in the Blue Belcher decks or big blue combo decks?

    I think Belcher is a good existing shell for this. I could also see this being played as a one a two of in Big Blue control/combo decks. However, I think there are some potential new archtypes that could really abuse this card. I've been working on a deck for some time but never really got it to work, but I think this card might make it very playable.



  • @JuzamJim
    I bet your new deck idea loses to a Thalia, Guardian of Spheres. ;)



  • The more I think about the more I believe this is not just a storm card. This is big-mana Gush. Mentor can play a lot of artifacts (like Mana Vault even) to accelerate into this and just go off. It doesn't work that great with Mana Drain, and it still does require 4 mana to cast, but it can be devastating to "Gush" drawing 5 cards for 0 mana.



  • @MaximumCDawg said:

    @JuzamJim
    I bet your new deck idea loses to a Thalia, Guardian of Spheres. ;)

    Well, I usually I am the one playing Thalia, so I know how much of a threat it can be to this type of deck, and yes it's definitely an obstacle :-)



  • This card could easily be more broken than a draw 7 in belcher. I personally think it is absolutely bonkers.



  • at 4 mana how many cards do you actually have to draw to come out ahead of just casting a concentrate? or a deep anal? if i cant pick up lands i have to pick up actual things. i cant even pick up my standstill because its not an additional cost. this feels like it would be better in a blue workshop deck. some sort of amalgamation of stax and tezzerets



  • @Serracollector said:

    This card could easily be more broken than a draw 7 in belcher. I personally think it is absolutely bonkers.

    Forget Belcher, run this in Mentor City Vault or a Drain deck. Easily bonkers there.



  • Wow... Cards like this make me want to bust into Standard for this set... Wizards doing us a huge favor here.

    I perhaps smell a future restrict? If you manage to pay for this with moxes and a Crypt, it's a free draw 3 or 4? It also has a similar "Gush" type mechanic, you can easily tap additional ramp stuff, return it, play it, tap it again...

    Yeah, this is broke.



  • Interestingly and contrary to Retract or Hurkyl's recall you don't have to bounce everything, you can pick & choose.

    You may decide not to bounce & reset your Smokestack or Chrome Mox, you may decide not to bounce your critter so they don't become summoning sick, etc...

    This makes the card very interesting with a lot of potential decisions, etc...



  • It's curious but the first time I saw it I was unimpressed. In fact unless you have a couple of permanents in play this card is plain bad. But with moxen/voltaic key/sdt/trinket mage/spellbomb/snapcaster... it's not bad at all if I can play it in opponent's EOT, so it may be a nice addition to my old bomberman.

    And don't forget that it can save permanents from being destroyed/exiled/stolen, providing you have the mana.



  • I don't see this in a big blue shell that doesn't care about playing more spells. You'd have to bounce 4+ cards to get on par with Fact or Fiction, which sees no play at all. If this is going to be a card in any kind of strategy, it must be one that cares about you replaying cards (Storm, Mentor) or decks that can pretty much guarantee a 4+ bounce, which is no easy feat. I'll try it out in an Acdemy shell to see where it can got, but I doubt it is any good for ritual storm decks right now.



  • If you're bouncing artifact mana 4 cards = 4 mana = double Gush on a single card. The high-end potential here is really high, and the low end is probably close to Night's Whisper



  • @Twiedel Yeah, you need Mentor for it to work great. But in a big mana it can happen more than a trivial ammount of time for you to cast this for "free". So Imagine you draw 4 cards with this, having to pay 0 mana and then you draw another? Or you cast this paying 1 mana, draw 3 and they're a Mox and another P Outcome? This can be really big in the right deck. So MAYBE playing things like Mana Vault in Mentor could be good now.

    Of course there a lot of times when you just have the 1-2 Mox and this can't draw anything, but the deck's gotta be designed for it.



  • The fact that you can chain these make the card very powerful. Its like the Gush-Bond engine in 1 card.



  • Seems to be good in Turbo Tezz / Steel City Vault etc. A bit harder to resolve but if it lands unopposed by sphere effects, it is a recall at minimum in these decks, while not giving the opponent a fresh 7.
    It's obviously rather bad versus spheres and chalices.



  • Ive heard some voices complaining about those spoiler card discussions not having any possible decklists being discussed. Ive got 2 concrete ideas for this card, but i need some time to work them out properly.


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