Sub-Forum in Vintage Strategy for Shitty Single Card Discussion Threads

  • @mickey.nobilis said:

    I hardly notice the subforums at all since I just click the unread button when I visit.

    ^ that

  • @Brass-Man said:

    This is awesome feedback guys ... I have some ideas that I think might solve all of these concerns without causing new problems, but it requires both some technical work and possibly some buy-in from a few dedicated TMD'ers, and I don't know how long that'll take to implement.

    If, realistically, that just can't happen in reasonable time frame, I'm not totally sure where to go from there ... I agree that single card discussions eat up a lot of space, but it's not like we have a ton of threads to sort through anyway, I fear if we make a 20 sub-boards like the old site, we just end up with 19 dead sub-boards, like the old site.

    I use the unread posts feature exclusively, with the occasional exception of the tournament announcements and rarely gets above 15. I dont think its worth the time and hassle to shift and hide the spoiled card threads, but in the end it wont matter to me (or any other unread only guys) because we will see them anyways, and theres never THAT many unread threads so its not a big deal.

  • Would it be worth condensing set spoilers into a single "official" thread for random hype/ light discussion/"is this playable" for cards as they are spoiled for a given set? If people want to have more a detailed discussion about a card, they could write up a post with a better premise than "look it's a new card is it good".

  • TMD Supporter

    I think single card discussion threads of spoiled cards is an important function of TMD, but whether this is a useful request or not I think depends on how people use TMD, as Andy suggested.

    While I don't necessarily disagree with the request, I do think that such threads are valuable, even if the card is unplayable. So, I don't agree with the pejorative implications of the request. There are several reasons for this.

    First of all, threads over new cards can't resolve whether a card will or will not see play. The only thing that can do that is time and empirical data. Therefore, it's a mistake to assume, to extent that the request here assumes this, that card discussions are bad when cards are unplayable but OK if the card is playable. That can't be determined with certainty a priori. Therefore, if the standard is or should be that only playable cards be discussed, then no new card should be discussed, because that can't be factually known.

    Secondly, and this flows from the first point, the value of the discussion flows not from a conclusion as to whether a card will see play or not (since that can't be known) but a presentation of views, opinions, and claims as to why it may or may not be; that is, analysis.

    If the value from the threads is the analysis, and not claims of playability, then it shouldn't really matter whether the card is good or not in the end. It's like an exam question with no right or wrong answer. The value comes in the reasoning, not the conclusion. That's why I find discussions of unplayable cards often just as valuable as discussions of playable cards. Explaining why a card won't see play - when it's not easily provable by pointing to a clearly superior card that doesn't see play - is often a very valuable exercise. It helps us generate insights, criteria, and frameworks that refine our understanding of why and where cards do see play. Therefore, analysis of ultimately unplayable cards is often of great value.

    Finally, the Vintage community has missed many playable cards (JTMS) or underestimated great cards. Perhaps we could have benefited from discussing cards that many if not most thought were unplayable had those threads existed. That said, I don't know whether a sub forum would be valuable or not, but if it marginalizes these discussions, and it doesn't clutter or crowd out more valuable discussions, I don't really see a problem.

  • It's a matter of degree but I can think of at least one card that was barely playable at spoiler time and turned into a massive format pillar: Dark Confidant.

    It did take some B/R action to get there. But I think in certain cases it's valuable to talk about cards with unique effects or in-the-ballpark rates. And if you allow that on bonfire marginal cards, there's really no reasonable way to police any of it?

  • I agree with Steve on most of this post. I still think a sub forum for spoiler discussion might be neat. Its not inherently necessary but i like tidy forums. I understand the fear of having too many sub forums and such having a ton of dead ones, so this might be a counterargument for such a feature.

    @mickey-nobilis said:

    I hardly notice the subforums at all since I just click the unread button when I visit.

    Yeah, i do as well, but this isn't really relevant here, is it? I mean the only reason i mostly use the unread feature is that i am currently pretty active and read a lot on TMD. This might change and there are a lot of users, that don't read the newest threads daily. For those users the unread feature isnt really useful since it is overcrowded by way to much stuff. Those users do want to navigate the subforums to find a thread they are interested in reading, and for that reason a clean uncluttered Forum is very useful.

  • TMD Supporter

    @Evoclipse Me (and presumably at least six other people by way of upvote) are giving constructive feedback on how we use the forums to better steer @Brass-Man's judgment on how to maintain them. That might not be relevant to you, but it might be relevant to him, and he has far more power over my browsing experience.

  • @snowydude said:

    @mickey.nobilis said:

    I hardly notice the subforums at all since I just click the unread button when I visit.

    ^ that

    Ditto. Ever since I discovered the magic of swipe left on mobile it's the only thing I use.

  • @mickey.nobilis i understand that, but you do get that this feature isn't useful to a lot of non regulars or new users? If you would be visiting TMD lets say once a week, a clean Forum is the key to good navigation. Having a subforum for this should have nothing to do with hiding those discussions away just with a easily browsable interface, where finding what threads you are interested in is easy and does not involve scrolling through a bunch of pages.

    I am not saying that the forum is incredibly cluttered or unbrowsable at the moment, but i do get the general idea behind such a sub forum before it might become a problem.

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