N.Y.S.E. V?



  • @rikter said:

    @nedleeds I like the idea of white plains, its a lot closer to me and theres none of the issues of driving through the city and around long island, which are generally a pain in the ass.

    3-4 decent hotels in the area (Hilton, Renaissance, and Hyatt House) maybe one would have a reasonable rental rate for their meeting / ballroom.


  • TMD Supporter

    As long as you don't hold the tournament on a Friday you can do no wrong.



  • I plan on coming next year. I care less about prizes though, more about the general vibe of the format.



  • To make an on-topic post, the entry fee is trivial compared to the travel expenses. And logistics are important (having a venue close to an airport for example), but I do hope that this tournament can continue for the sake of the community. At least from my outsider's perspective, the turnout seemed good and it seemed like a successful event.



  • @rbartlet said:

    • This is a controversial point, but it reflects my reality. My wife will always ask me if an event allows proxies (or play-test cards) when we talk about travelling for magic. Regardless of the prestige, size, or quality of the event, my wife places events that allow proxies below those that do not. From a personal perspective, this makes it harder to argue the point for attending. The easier it is for me to sell the event to my wife, the easier it is to attend

    That's interesting. Why? I've heard others be unsympathetic towards proxies as a "purity of the game" argument (or something similar).



  • Nick I have enjoyed coming out to the NYSE tournaments and would like to continue doing so.
    Costs increasing from $100-$120 is well worth it to keep up with card and venue inflation.
    I hate to think of you taking a financial hit to run this event. A small price hike is a small price to pay to make NYSE sustainable.
    I am in the minority here as I fly into NY for your event, but it would be great if the venue was a bit closer to the airport. It was 1.2 hour drive from JFK last year which prompted renting a car as a cab would have cost me twice as much.
    If you were to change the month from June to July this could definitely impact my ability to come. The summers are busy for me from a Family perspective thus early June is much more maneuverable than July is for me.
    Thanks again!



  • I haven't been to an NYSE event mostly because there has been only 1 since I got back into Magic and the weekend didnt' work for me. But considering the prize support I wouldn't mind a price increase if it meant the difference between you taking a hit and breaking even/making a profit. Its just wayyyy too early for me to say I will attend next year. I wouldn't know if I could attend until May (if this was in june).



  • @GrandpaBelcher - I cannot truly explain what goes through my wife's head, but I can make suggestions. For context, my wife gifted me a set of power many years ago. She knows how to play magic; well, she knew how to play magic. In her experiences traveling with me to random events over many years, she has formed opinions on the differences between people who own power, and want to play vintage, and those who do not own power, but want to play vintage. She wants me to use her gift to me, but at the same time, expects the same of others. She often brings entitlement into the conversation (which in this case is a barrier to entry problem). Quite truthfully, on an idealistic level, I do not disagree with her. The pragmatist in me though kicks in and says: this is the path to play more vintage and have bigger events; which I am fine with. My wife, not having the desire to play vintage does not take this step; which is fine.

    Relating this back to the main thread: allowing proxies makes it more difficult for me to justify travelling for an event. For our family, travel is a family-driven decision. Note the emphasis on more difficult, and not impossible.



  • Nick, it was my first NYSE this year and it was an amazing, fun and well run event. I appreciate everything you did to make it a success for all players. I am looking forward to another! Thanks!

    Tom



  • I'd be happy to pay $20 more for a good venue. More or less prize support is up to the community, I'm happy either way.

    I think the $20 day of penalty is appropriate. $40 day of may push away people who didn't have a chance to register. A staggered raffle for a legit prize for the first 25, 50, 100 prereg sounds good to me. Maybe get that sponsored.


  • TMD Supporter

    @rbartlet said:

    @GrandpaBelcher - I cannot truly explain what goes through my wife's head, but I can make suggestions. For context, my wife gifted me a set of power many years ago. She knows how to play magic; well, she knew how to play magic. In her experiences traveling with me to random events over many years, she has formed opinions on the differences between people who own power, and want to play vintage, and those who do not own power, but want to play vintage. She wants me to use her gift to me, but at the same time, expects the same of others. She often brings entitlement into the conversation (which in this case is a barrier to entry problem). Quite truthfully, on an idealistic level, I do not disagree with her. The pragmatist in me though kicks in and says: this is the path to play more vintage and have bigger events; which I am fine with. My wife, not having the desire to play vintage does not take this step; which is fine.

    Relating this back to the main thread: allowing proxies makes it more difficult for me to justify travelling for an event. For our family, travel is a family-driven decision. Note the emphasis on more difficult, and not impossible.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but this attitude seems a bit elitist to me. It would be one thing if power was only a few hundred dollars a piece, but it's not.



  • @Islandswamp it was when she purchased it (well, less actually).


  • TMD Supporter

    Yeah but it's on Long Island. Nowhere near any airports. The people flying in still need to drive 1-3 hours.

    On a related note, driving through NY is miserable. NJ could be a better location overall. Something closer to Newark airport.


  • TMD Supporter

    @rbartlet I've spent thousands on magic cards in my life and I still can't play sanctioned Vintage. I feel like I'm pretty dedicated and serious about the format though.



  • Full disclosure, I would have loved to go to NYSE 4, but I could not for work reasons. So perhaps my opinion counts less. But I am definitely interested in attending the next incarnation of this event, if it happens.

    I agree with Nick's desire to maintain prize support (seems like it's one of the things that makes the tournament unique!), and I'm in the same boat as @nedleeds in wanting a nice venue. I travel to a fair number of GP's each year, and hanging out with friends at the end of the day is a big part of the fun of Magic travel; can't really do that without decent restaurants and such nearby.

    It seems that most posters here are not very sensitive to the price of entry. Neither am I; $200 might be around my upper limit. Is that enough to run the event just as you want to? What cost would you need to charge in order to comfortably run an event with (a) power to the top 8, (b) Shops and Bazaars to top 16, and (c) a sweet venue in a cool area?



  • @Islandswamp you might need to take this up with my wife. As I said, my wife asks, whenever there is a conversation around travelling to play magic, whether the event allows proxies. She does not play vintage, and never has. For me, it is more difficult to get buy-in to travel to an event that allows proxies, than one that does not.



  • hey, another option is always to cut the top end prize support. Lotus is an expensive card, worth 25+ entries. all about finding the right balance. but it seems like this is one of the more cutthroat, top-end-heavy tournaments.



  • @kenan said:

    Full disclosure, I would have loved to go to NYSE 4, but I could not for work reasons. So perhaps my opinion counts less. But I am definitely interested in attending the next incarnation of this event, if it happens.

    I agree with Nick's desire to maintain prize support (seems like it's one of the things that makes the tournament unique!), and I'm in the same boat as @nedleeds in wanting a nice venue. I travel to a fair number of GP's each year, and hanging out with friends at the end of the day is a big part of the fun of Magic travel; can't really do that without decent restaurants and such nearby.

    It seems that most posters here are not very sensitive to the price of entry. Neither am I; $200 might be around my upper limit. Is that enough to run the event just as you want to? What cost would you need to charge in order to comfortably run an event with (a) power to the top 8, (b) Shops and Bazaars to top 16, and (c) a sweet venue in a cool area?

    So I just made some calls to hotels in the White Plains area, and its craaaazy expensive to get a room that can accommodate an event like this in the kinds of places that are close to airports and whatnot. Hilton Westchester gave me a rough quote of 7-10k for space and tables big enough to accommodate up to 200 people, as an example.

    My rough breakdown of prize costs: approx. $13,000 if you wanted to do the Bazaars. These are prices I think you could hit over the course of a year, purchased one at a time, to a guy off the street. Nick has far better relationships with dealers, and might be able to snag discounts buying a bunch at once, but still, its an easy $10k.

    Sample Breakdown
    Black Lotus : $3,000
    Ancestral Recall $1050
    Time Walk: $850
    Sapphire : $1000
    Jet : $750
    Ruby: $700
    Pearl $650
    Emerald: $650
    4x Shops $2500
    4x Bazaar $2000

    At 150 people, all of whom pre-registered at $100 (last years pre-reg price), approx. $66 per person would be needed to pay off the prize pool. This would leave about $5,100 in gate to cover the costs of processing credit card payments, paying the judges, miscellaneous supplies, door prizes etc, to compensate Nick for his work, and to secure the venue. There may also be additional revenues from vendor fees, but generally speaking thats a VERY small pool of money to do all of those things. My guess is that you would need $10-12k left over from the gate after paying off the prize pool in order to have the nice venue near an airport and make sure Nick is getting a big enough piece to keep the events coming. With the fully guaranteed prizes and a setup like 2015, its almost $20k or so that he would be putting himself on the hook for.

    By my estimates the entrance price would need to be $150-$175 per person, because I think that raising the price significantly might price some people out.

    @mediumsteve Typically the top prize in a big tournament, like 128+ is going to pay out between 20:1 and 30:1. Given our attendance and the price we pay, the lotus is beyond reasonable.



  • Depends on when in June or July. Life gets in the way of traveling to events often. Friends and Family > magic events. An important birthday stopped me from attending this year. Summer in general is not good for attending Magic events. The one gaming event I do attend during the summer is Gencon and the closer your event is to Gencon the less likely I will attend.

    April or May outside of snow range before summer would be a better time.

    $120 Entry fee does not bother me. Guaranteeing prizes to top 8 and 9-16 being based on attendance might be the way to go to keep costs down.

    Venue that is not on Long Island that more accessible to those flying and has better food options would make it more attractive in general. Rather not have on site fast food and driving in Long Island with the summer beach traffic is no fun.

    Is it possible for events to have a lunch break? Or does that not work time wise? Pokemon events have lunch breaks. I go to work I get a lunch break. This actually is a big issue and why some friends do not attend large magic events. They won't starve and do 10 round marathons.



  • I won't speak to the location thing since I am clearly biased by living 10 minutes from last year's site. But as far as prizes/entry fee goes, I'd gladly pay extra entry fee in order to keep these tournaments alive. Perhaps offering some large-ish incentive to pre-reg (random prize given out only to pre-reg, something like that) would minimize the risk of upping entry fee.


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