Painter > metagamed for Shops, Storm, Mentor

I don't think "Painter, the deck" is necessarily something that can't beat Oath, just that, with this particular list, Oath was a low consideration - There aren't any cards in the deck specifically for that matchup. If I were anticipating more Oath in the meta, I could make cuts accordingly

Have you given any thought to Goblin Welder? It has amazing synergy with Thirst, and it also provides plays against Shops. Whenever I'm running a Rx build (in most cases, UR) I usually include some number of Goblin Welder. It's usually fantastic.

I've never really liked welder in this sort of deck - that said I honestly haven't played much with it. In my list, there's no weldable Tinker target, so there aren't too many exciting plays with the card.

I also feel like Welder isn't as exciting against shops as it used to be. Against a modern Shops deck with Ravager, Revoker, Hangarback, Triskelion, Wurmcoil - Welder is going to be completely dead a lot of the time in that matchup. If your opponent is running Metamorphs, Welder could even be a liability. In a shops-heavy meta I'd really rather have Chewers and Dacks than Goblin Welders.

@Brass-Man said:

I've never really liked welder in this sort of deck - that said I honestly haven't played much with it. In my list, there's no weldable Tinker target, so there aren't too many exciting plays with the card.

Activate Grindstone holding priority, weld in painter's servant... That's an exciting play right?

Anyone have ideas on what cards are good against Oath in this sort of shell? It's a fair portion of my local meta.

Blasting an Oath with a Painter out is fine, but I've gotten blown out multiple times with Abrupt Decay your Painter in response... then again I guess the JVP & Duress plan helps fight that, which is a change I need to make to my list.

You can have 7 or 8 fetchlands in your maindeck, and then a Tundra and the good white cards in the sideboard.

This has been done in URB decks before, and I think it's reasonable.

last edited by wappla

@wappla said:

You can have 7 or 8 fetchlands in your maindeck, and then a Tundra and the good white cards in the sideboard.

This has been done in URB decks before, and I think it's reasonable.

Another option is to play annul/spell snare if the problem is oath itself. Cage is of course a recurrent option. Playing Trinket Mage would mean 1 cage main is an option, and it fetches grindstone too. But trinket modifies the maindeck too much.

Sorry for adding to an old topic. My apologies if I shouldn't have.

Brassman, you mentioned you like having two grindstones in the main board even though you take them out in the sideboarded games. Is there any particular reason why you do this? I understand some of this may be inaccurate since Vintage is shifting lately with the Eldrazi and everything.

It sure does seem appropriate to discuss this archetype if we think Eldrazi are a serious metagame concern. I mean, Painter itself screws over Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin.

Going back to the original post and card list Brassman:
Considering all the mentor, the rise of the eldrazi and some recent success of various fish type decks would you swap out duress for thoughtseize? Seems a much better meta-game call to me.

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