Suntitan Odd Oath
When I was looking at Montolio's decklist with Inferno Titan I couldn't help but wonder if Suntitan recurring Dack and Pernicious Deed paired with Griselbrand and the Planeswalker suite could be better. So I tried it and while it was good I felt bad almost every time Void Winnower Showed up instead of Titan; so I decided to run 2x Titans and more Value 3cmc> enchantments and artifacts. As a note I am new to Oath but started off with Shuhei Nakamura's list from vsl before attempting this so any criticism is appreciated.
(Note: It's 61 cards because I haven't played it enough yet with Propaganda/Detention Sphere MD yet)
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
Oblivion RingDetention Sphere/Propaganda
4 Oath of Druids
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Mental Misstep
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dig Through Time
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Sun Titan
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Seal of Cleaning/Primordium
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Arcane Laboratory (Comes down off of Titan for storm)
1 Propaganda (Originally budget moat but turned into Titan target)
2 Tormod's Crypt (I rarely face dredge in the tourny practice room hope for elesh against them)
2 Rending Volley
1 Void Winnower
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Edit: Added a Maybeboard here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/suntitan-odd-oath-maybe-board/
Some early thoughts in the few days I've had the deck put together is any deck that wants to win with creatures has a hard time dealing with Multiple Planeswalkers, Oath and Deeds wiping the board.
Oblivion ring is in the main for me right now as a catch-all mostly for planeswalkers but also a "3rd" dack effect of sorts for dealing with Blightsteel for a turn or two.
Not popping Deed the turn it comes down but with your Oath trigger on the stack lets you still get a second creature if you have an untapped Orchard or 2 to put down after the wipe.
Elesh Norn is an all-star against so many decks but is only good if you expect them to fill the board quickly as she has no self protection.
Propaganda won't save your Planeswalkers or you if they have the mana but for the most part it stops mentor/pyro swarms and makes shops have to decide on waiting to attack or not.
Notable Exclusions are Library of Alexandria as I felt I am not good enough player yet and it affected my mulligan decisions poorly. Stripmine is out because I'm running essentially a 5c deck with only 4 rainbow lands that hope to win before I need one and also Karakas is less of a pain with 2 non-legendary oath targets main and one more to bring in from the side.
The deck feels less hopeless than other oath decks i've played when you can't find that bloody Oath of druids; or a tutor since we have mainboard wipes and plenty of planeswalkers than can win the game in their own right. Also there is no feel bad "I wish I got this creature instead of that one" as Griselbrand is hard to be disappointed about and the twin titans bring so much value.
- Switched O-Ring for a D-Sphere since it hits all tokens or what not.
- Switched Wear//Tear for a 1/1 Split of Seal of Cleansing/Primordium
- Removed Tormod's crypt for Rending Volley as its uncounterable kill mentor/Priest/Thalia for R
I've yet to play my Elesh Norn in Vintage, but I've certainly been meaning to. Plan on play-testing this soon. Thanks!
Looks interesting and will certainly give it a run out. One recent card that caught my eye for a deck like this is the blue enchantment in Eldritch Moon that counters the opponent's first spell of the turn - and then goes to the graveyard for Sun Titan recursion. CMC is 2U. Unplayable in limited so can't remember what it's bloody called....but could offer some sweet value.
@sodoyouwearacape Lunar Force for the curious. Huh thats def interesting. I don't know if thats better than oblivion ring or propaganda or if I want another 3 drop without mana crypt in the deck. Also seems like most of the mentor or gush based decks in general have plenty of chaff to pitch first then swords to plowshares and seems much worse than arcane lab against storm.
Edit: At that point standstill might be good as a one of instead. tho I'm not really running enough removal and counterspells to make it worth it.
@sodoyouwearacape Solitary Confinement Against Storm? either grizzles keeps our hand full to discard or sun titan can bring it back. doesnt die to pyroblast either which is a liability with arcane lab.
I tested against you in the testing room, I'm spartan117gottshall online. I was playing the Tiny Robots list. Your deck is very powerful. Sun Titan is a great Oath creature, bringing back a plethora of options.
@msg67183 Thank you very much. Yea it was surprising how powerful the combo is. Only problem with deed is opposing jace's bouncing your creatures.
Shall I recommend Seal of Primordium/ Cleansing over Wear/ Tear? You can hardcast a Sun Tita , bring back Seal and blow up a Cage. Nice tech eh?
And as an answer to Priest, maybe something like Barbarian Ring? You are bound to have Threshold when you hardcast a Titan.
@msg67183 Huh thats interesting, I think The wear//tear will be replaced for sure but as for priest 2 abrupt decay and the deeds are usually enough but I may add some spot removal in.
Fair enough. Deed is very good as a catch all
I would play Imprisioned in the Moon in the slot you are searching as a catch all.
@PeAcH I have it in my maybe board but the problem is Detention Sphere hit 2x mentors, 2x Priests, 2x Cages, All the monk tokens. Its very hard to justify one vs a possible semi board wipe
@msg67183 @sodoyouwearacape @countbeckula What are your guy's thoughts on cutting nahiri for another Enchantment Flex spot or a 3rd deed? Solitary Confinement seems like the best because it stops just about every deck and can be recurred with titan if we don't want to discard.
Im surprised you dont run the key/time vault combo, wasnt that one of the main reasons to run Sun Titan in Oath?
@Serracollector it's really awkward to need 2 turns to bring both back. Chances are wiping the board with deed or stealing a blightsteel with a recurred dack is just better
I guess depends on the build. If you already have half the combo via tutor, tinker, or natural draw you win. Also, adds a 3rd "dead" card, but I have seen vetsions with Dragons Breath so you can get both pieces or 2 of something else, in one turn.
Dragon's Breath is so tempting with Sun Titan/KeyVault but yet another dead card weighs heavily against the case for including KeyVault.
The Dragon's Breath on its own might be more defensible since you can still get back two lock pieces on that initial turn.
Trinisphere and Statis are high on my list of Titan targets especially if you're already considering The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
@Aaron-Patten instead of Stasis what about Solitary confinement or Contamination. With suntitan out we can let it die on our turn then bring it back after combat.
Solitary stops storm with shroud and all creature damage with damage prevention. Griselbrand can also draw us cards if we don't want to sac it. Also prevents them from oathing targeting us.
You know what else Sun Titan can bring back? Necropotence!
Dragons breath on Titan, bring back necro, swing, bring back solitary confinement, max hand, go. Seems good. Also, personally, I would run Aura of Silence over either Seal, thats kinda meta dependant I guess tho. I for one really really like Forcefield as an answer to some decks as well, but maybe too slow.