The blind Revoker scenario - What would you do?


  • Administrators

    If you played even a little vintage with Shops or Eldrazi, you've had to do this before. I'm curious where people land on the issue.

    Given that: It's game one, you're on the play, your only turn 1 play is Ancient Tomb-> Phyrexian Revoker. You don't know who your opponent is, or what they're playing.

    Given that: You aren't getting a "soul-read" on what they're playing by looking at their haircut or their outfit or their MTGO username.
    but if you would otherwise factor that in, mention that

    Given that: The composition of your hand is such that you want to play the Revoker now instead of waiting.
    but if you might wait, suggest what sort of hand would make you do that

    • What card would you name if you're playing TKS Shops or Car Shops
    • What card would you name if you're playing White Eldrazi
    • How would it change either of those answers if you also had a Chalice of the Void in hand

    Don't feel like you need to answer all three if you're only comfortable with one of those decks. I'm far more interested in how people make these decisions than I am in the answers themselves.



  • I like blind naming Black Lotus. Most decks in Vintage play Black Lotus. It can swing a game in the opponent's favor with that huge mana burst. And while it might miss entirely, most other options like Jace or Dack are much more likely to be a problem on the opponent's first turn if he has the Lotus.



  • Yes, Lotus is the only thing I would ever name completely blind.



  • Typically with my Workshops list if I'm blind naming with Revoker on turn one, its naming Black Lotus, but that is mostly because I don't run it in my list. It's the best Mana accelerant in the game, and my build is less afraid of Dack. If I'm on the draw and I see they have Blue Mana then I usually name Dack, but if I'm on the play, I name Lotus.


  • Administrators

    Lotus being a popular answer is explicitly why I mentioned Chalice of the Void ... any revisions based on that?



  • I also don't run Chalice in my list, so that helps my decision.



  • @Brass-Man said:

    If you played even a little vintage with Shops or Eldrazi, you've had to do this before. I'm curious where people land on the issue.

    Given that: It's game one, you're on the play, your only turn 1 play is Ancient Tomb-> Phyrexian Revoker. You don't know who your opponent is, or what they're playing.

    Given that: You aren't getting a "soul-read" on what they're playing by looking at their haircut or their outfit or their MTGO username.
    but if you would otherwise factor that in, mention that

    Given that: The composition of your hand is such that you want to play the Revoker now instead of waiting.
    but if you might wait, suggest what sort of hand would make you do that

    • What card would you name if you're playing TKS Shops or Car Shops
    • What card would you name if you're playing White Eldrazi
    • How would it change either of those answers if you also had a Chalice of the Void in hand

    Don't feel like you need to answer all three if you're only comfortable with one of those decks. I'm far more interested in how people make these decisions than I am in the answers themselves.

    Black lotus or mox sapphire depending on the the list (if I remember right from an earlier thread there are some eldrazi lists that cut mox sapphire citing this as reason).

    If I have chalice and have no idea what my opponent is ok, I probably drop chalice at 0 and the moment I see he's on U or u/r I'm naming dack or jace.



  • If my only T1 is revoker in the dark, Id have to think hard about even keeping it in the first place



  • I'd never play blind Revoker with Chalice in hand! I'd always play Chalice on zero first to see if it resolves! If it doesn't, Lotus. If it does, Dack.


  • TMD Supporter

    @BazaarOfBaghdad said:

    I'd never play blind Revoker with Chalice in hand! I'd always play Chalice on zero first to see if it resolves! If it doesn't, Lotus. If it does, Dack.

    I would agree with this. As Dack is usually the only other card that can certifiably swing a match. Other moxen, crypt, Jace can be annoying, but an early Dack can be game over. (Assuming my hand is sensitive to a Dack)

    I almost never name a mox, as it's a 20-33% chance of hitting the right one, and worse yet can backfire on me.

    The "soul read" is always a good time. Usually not as apparent as a Jace playmat or blue sleeves. But if the person looks like they enjoy reveling in other people's misery, burned ants with a microscope as a kid, or thinks that Daniel Caruso was the bad guy in Karate Kid, I assume we're in for a mirror match ;)


  • TMD Supporter

    I remember when I would name Time Vault a lot, but if I am playing some sort of deck with thorns and what not, I almost name lotus, because it is usually going to get to a point where they need to find a ton of mana to get out, and lotus is the most likely scenario for that. If I have chalice I am more likely to name sol ring.



  • I have chalice, I cast it for x = 1, and hold the revoker.



  • @BazaarOfBaghdad said:

    I'd never play blind Revoker with Chalice in hand! I'd always play Chalice on zero first to see if it resolves!

    Interesting side discussion - With Chalice now restricted, given the option, how often to you not play it at zero on turn one? How does this change as the game progresses? I find this particularly interesting because my deck is 37% one drops but only 5% zeroes.



  • Tbh, I'd play chalice 1 over revoker. In general, Lotus, Vault or Dack.


  • TMD Supporter

    I would Chalice for 0 and if it did not meet a FOW, I would Revoker for Sol Ring. If CotV is FOWed, I would Revoker for Black Lotus.



  • With no chalice I'd revoker for lotus.

    With chalice, I'd lead with it on 1 and if it sticks follow up with revoker on lotus.

    @thecravenone Running null rods I'd almost always try chalice for 1.



  • Haven't played revoker for years, but I hated playing it blind. I prefered to keep it in my hand against unknown deck, since I don't like throwing it against oath deck. In the past I named Jace more often than not (having heavy suspects that my opponent was on blue).

    I could play it T1 if I have a hand with heavy aggro (I'm thinking in ravager), just to be quicker, and then lotus is probably the best option.

    If I have big creatures (golem or similar) to play in T2 and T3, then I can name fayden.

    Having chalice I'd probably do as Peach suggests and play it for 0, and then maybe revoker on fayden, though sol ring could be a better choice against a mistery deck.



  • Black lotus on the blind.



  • I name Black Lotus on the blind, but I think its worth considering not making the turn 1 Revoker play and holding onto it until the opponent plays a mox. Just because Revoker is your only possible turn 1 play doesn't mean you have to take that line. You could just play Mishra's Factory and say go.



  • I'm not an experienced shops player but my first instinct would be to name dack fayden if I was shops, and probably Jace if I was white eldrazi



  • I do name black lotus a lot blind, but this thread has me thinking more about other options.

    Chalice on one just shuts down so much of the blue and dps that g1 in the blind I would actually lead with that on one as counterbait.


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