Vintage Proxy Guidelines



  • @Smmenen said in Vintage Proxy Guidelines:

    Regarding the original question, to my knowledge Zherbus was the first person to permit "proxy" Vintage tournaments, and the guidelines weren't very strict. The only rule was, at first, just 5 proxies.

    Actually, it was 'proxy any of the power 10'. I don't think this ever came up in the interview we did a few years back, but where I was from had a lot of Type 1.5 players. Most players who had been around had access to dual lands (they were like $15 for good ones at the time in 2001/2002), revised restricted cards, and newer stuff. Even Mishra's Workshop was like $20 at the time.

    The part that did come up in the interview, which you can find in Smmenen's series, was that at the time Vintage games in general were difficult to find, nevermind any sort of tournament. The complaint was always about 'well you have power, and I don't so I will lose'. It was a valid complaint, but I wanted to show people that Vintage was deeper than the perceived turn 1 kills.

    Last anecdote: I remember the event having Redman and Cooberp coming up from NG:NY, bringing Zoo and Enchantress respectfully. An Academy deck was at the top tables, a few Mono-Blue FoF decks, a JPMeyer Stacker 2 deck, a bunch of homebrews, and me with Keeper.



  • Wow @Zherbus is alive! Good to see you!



  • Sure am. Haven't spoken to most of you since I wrote the CS primer on the deck Shay and I worked on 2.5 years ago. Some of you not for much longer (I think we talked on the phone last in 2011 Soly) I'm alive!

    Also to add, the Hadley and Waterbury tournaments that followed mine started playing with different rules. 5 of anything proxies, 10 of anything proxies, x number of free proxies - pay extra entry for more proxies, and who can forget the 'we're going to make a batch of less than authentic power cards to beef up the circulation, give them out as prizes, and have them not count towards the proxy limit' proxies. Somewhere in a box, I still have a Black Lotus and an Mox Emerald from those ill-fated events.

    Another thing to remember was the guidelines that eventually took shape. Specifically, at the first Hadley tournament in the top 8, a dude played a land with a tiny strip of paper on it that was a Mox. There was a glare on the sleeve from the lights, I never saw that this was Mox-Monkey food, and almost lost a game because of it. That's when common sense rules started to apply. You had to make it clear what card it was, you had to include card text, and it couldn't be slips of paper (full sized or otherwise) because you could feel that thickness difference.



  • One more thing that makes "proxy" events even harder is Wizards changed/updated/clarified their policy on what a "proxy" is.

    The definitions now are (short hand):

    Proxy: Card given out by TO to replace a card damaged or unplayable in the middle of an event.

    Counterfeit: Any reproduction of WotC IP (including printed out slips of paper for "old term proxy")

    Playtest: A real magic card with writing on it to signify it is a different card.

    As is, a WPN Store can not hold an event that allows "counterfeit" cards. We can only hold events that allow playtest cards. This essentially killed the eternal events at my store. because people were comfortable looking at a card and saying "yep, that's a Mox Ruby" instead of trying to decipher scribble on a card.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Zherbus said in Vintage Proxy Guidelines:

    Sure am. Haven't spoken to most of you since I wrote the CS primer on the deck Shay and I worked on 2.5 years ago. Some of you not for much longer (I think we talked on the phone last in 2011 Soly) I'm alive!

    Also to add, the Hadley and Waterbury tournaments that followed mine started playing with different rules. 5 of anything proxies, 10 of anything proxies, x number of free proxies - pay extra entry for more proxies, and who can forget the 'we're going to make a batch of less than authentic power cards to beef up the circulation, give them out as prizes, and have them not count towards the proxy limit' proxies. Somewhere in a box, I still have a Black Lotus and an Mox Emerald from those ill-fated events.

    Another thing to remember was the guidelines that eventually took shape. Specifically, at the first Hadley tournament in the top 8, a dude played a land with a tiny strip of paper on it that was a Mox. There was a glare on the sleeve from the lights, I never saw that this was Mox-Monkey food, and almost lost a game because of it. That's when common sense rules started to apply. You had to make it clear what card it was, you had to include card text, and it couldn't be slips of paper (full sized or otherwise) because you could feel that thickness difference.

    What's this? I'd love to hear more about these proxies.



  • Are Collector Edition good enough for been considered Playtest or people don't allowed it? . I was thinking on buying Power9 CE. What about "Blanked" World championship cards? With a Sharpie is ok?


  • Administrators

    That's very much up to the judge/TO ... I wouldn't care if I were running an event, but I don't run events :D I would guess most judges have a problem with the sharp corners on CE, but championship cards with very opaque sleeves feel fine to me. If you want to use those, I would definitely bring a set of "regular" playtest cards, too, and ask the judge before the event.



  • When I use my CE duals or power I always triple sleeve and run it past the judge. In my experience the triple sleeve eliminates concerns about the corners on the CE cards and any impropriety related to rando foils. Of course triple sleeving is not for everyone and does make your deck a tad harder to shuffle, unless you play EDH regularly and are used to shuffling a huge stack of cards :)



  • For proxies I've been writing in pen on the back of bulk Commons but keep screenshots of all cards proxied on my phone so there isn't any issue with wording. And announcing every proxy on the board when an opponent asks about one is good practice so you opponent dosnt target the wrong card.



  • @xXHazardXx said in Vintage Proxy Guidelines:

    Playtest: A real magic card with writing on it to signify it is a different card.

    I have a minor quibble!

    As I mentioned in my post above, this is only one example of a playtest card. The article from Wizards suggests that a playtest card is any non-official card standing in for a real one that would not pass as real under a casual inspection. In other words, the following are playtest cards:

    (1) Cards blanked in acetone and hand-drawn or printed on with something other than the official art.
    (2) Blank World Championship Cards that you've doodled your card on (what I prefer, but they're getting scarcer)
    (3) Cards in sleeves with printed inserts showing the card they are standing in for.
    (4) A counterfeit with the words "PLAYTEST CARD ONLY" sharpied on it's face, probably?

    And so on. If it obviously isn't real, then it's probably a playtest card.


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