Oath of druids- The new Budget hotness?



  • Good evening all!

    I am returning to vintage piece by piece after some time, and with the recent reprints in the commander deck, it appears that the costs have dropped to silly lows. 4 Oaths and 4 Orchards cost only $18, shipped!

    Here is what I was working on-

    Mana-
    4x Forbidden Orchard
    4x City of Brass
    2x Mana Confluence
    4x Gemstone mine
    1x Tolarian Academy
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox sapphire
    1x Lotus Petal
    4x Dark Ritual

    Creatures-
    1x Blightsteel Colossus
    1x Griselbrand

    Others-
    1x Ancestral recall
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Ponder
    1x Treasure Cruise
    1x Dig through time
    1x Time walk
    1x Memory Jar
    1x Windfall
    1x Wheel of fortune
    1x Enlightened Tutor
    1x Merchant Scroll
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Imperial Seal
    1x Mind's desire
    1x Tinker
    1x Yawgmoth;s Bargain
    1x Tendrils of Agony
    2x Crop Rotation (Why was this unrestricted? might be increased to 3)
    4x Burning Wish
    4x Duress

    Sideboard
    1x Shattering spree
    1x tendrils of agony
    1x hunting pack
    1x diminishing returns
    1x yawgmoth's will

    I have been having alot of fun with this list. either plopping out a speedy fatty and taking a time walk or comboing out, it has been amusing.

    Am I really far off in cards from something current or am I just barking at the moon ?



  • crop rotation makes you sac a land as part of the cost so if it gets force'd or MM'd its an immediate 2 for 1. the only deck that plays it is 5c stax to my knowledge and thats because they can gaurantee no MM will get through or run crucibles.





  • @Doomhed said:

    Good evening all!

    I am returning to vintage piece by piece after some time, and with the recent reprints in the commander deck, it appears that the costs have dropped to silly lows. 4 Oaths and 4 Orchards cost only $18, shipped!

    Here is what I was working on-

    Mana-
    4x Forbidden Orchard
    4x City of Brass
    2x Mana Confluence
    4x Gemstone mine
    1x Tolarian Academy
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox sapphire
    1x Lotus Petal
    4x Dark Ritual

    Creatures-
    1x Blightsteel Colossus
    1x Griselbrand

    Others-
    1x Ancestral recall
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Ponder
    1x Treasure Cruise
    1x Dig through time
    1x Time walk
    1x Memory Jar
    1x Windfall
    1x Wheel of fortune
    1x Enlightened Tutor
    1x Merchant Scroll
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Imperial Seal
    1x Mind's desire
    1x Tinker
    1x Yawgmoth;s Bargain
    1x Tendrils of Agony
    2x Crop Rotation (Why was this unrestricted? might be increased to 3)
    4x Burning Wish
    4x Duress

    Sideboard
    1x Shattering spree
    1x tendrils of agony
    1x hunting pack
    1x diminishing returns
    1x yawgmoth's will

    I have been having alot of fun with this list. either plopping out a speedy fatty and taking a time walk or comboing out, it has been amusing.

    Am I really far off in cards from something current or am I just barking at the moon ?

    Far off? Yeah. This deck rolls over to a single swords to plowshares. Oath should be solid against shops but a first turn sphere effect will make your life miserable if you don't have an oath on the board fast. And mentor decks will just counter anything relevant without you being able to put up a fight. When the oath plan works, it works well. But often you'll need control of your own to get it into play and make it effective. Containment priest and grafdiggers cage are also pretty common cards which you have no way to fight.

    Start working on getting some FoW's in along with maybe a flusterstorm. You'll need the flusterstorm to fight the biggest threat to your tendrils kill - flusterstorm. And some mental missteps wouldn't be a bad idea to fight swords to plowshares and grafdiggers. With so many ways to produce all 5 colors of mana you may also want some good general sweepers like engineered explosives or pernicious deed.



  • I like the idea of pairing back some of the cards that aren't blue or black so that you can fit in some protection and adjust some lands into basics/sacs.

    Also, there are so many creatures in the format that I doubt crop rotation for orchard is necessary.



  • I just looked up the prices, and.... wow. That's really amazing.

    Oath of Druids combo is now the right price for an un-sleeved casual deck. Wow. Get yourself some Orchards, some Oaths, and some of the cheaper targets (Worldspine Wurm, Empyrial Archangel, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell) and go to freak'n town.

    You could probably even construct a middling-to-tier-3 Vintage deck on a budget this way, even without power! Entry point into the format, anyone?

    Entry Point Oath

    Combo (10)

    4x Forbidden Orchard
    4x Oath of Druids
    2x (Oath targets- Sphinx, Leviathan, whatever, maybe some in sideboard to swap)

    Card Advantage (8)

    1x Brainstorm
    1x Ponder
    1x Treasure Cruise
    1x Dig Through Time
    4x Preordain

    Control (12)

    2x Spell Pierce
    2x Swan Song
    4x Mental Misstep
    4x Foil

    Removal (10)

    2x Nature's Claim
    2x Chain of Vapor
    6x (Sideboard slots for match-specific removal)

    Mana (20)

    1x Sol Ring
    1x Mana Vault
    10x Island
    4x Forest
    4x City of Brass

    According to https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tools/deck_pricer#online, this deck without the Oath targets or the side-board specific removal, which could vary, costs $30.00 online and $70.00 in paper. And while it's obviously not optimal, I could absolutely see this deck stealing games and getting someone new into the format.


  • Administrators

    I'm confused - I don't particularly like Burning Oath lists, but I don't see where Swords to Plowshares is a serious problem against this deck. If I were playing a list like this I would desperately hope my opponent draws Swords against me over other disruption. If a Blightsteel gets plowed you still get Griselbrand next turn, if Griselbrand gets plowed you're up 14 cards and they're down 1.

    While this list doesn't have the kind of disruption/resilience that control-oath lists have, I think it's pretty obvious that the gameplan of this deck against a Containment Priest isn't "remove it" but "go for a Tendrils kill"

    Flusterstorm is definitely a pain for a Tendrils strategy, but in a combo deck, Duress is a much better answer to Flusterstorms than running your own. Defense Grids might be better still. I'm not sure you're evaluating this deck for what it is.



  • Random thoughts.

    I'm more a fan of dropping the robot for another Griselbrand. Twister likely also puts in an appearance if it is a storm deck with an oath plan. If I am running a deck with 4 rituals that might want to draw a lot of cards, I'm still partial to necro. Like others have said, I prefer a bit more of a blue defensive suite in pitch counters. A few force of wills and a misdirection or two can go a long way towards making for an interesting time. I'd also move the tendrils to the sb.- why else are you running 4 burning wishes >.>

    Sideboard- you definitely want a toxic deluge and a show and tell.

    This is off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure there's probably a better burning oath list somewhere. I know Steve played around iwth it a couple of years ago, and someone was putting up fun results about a year ago.



  • @MaximumCDawg said:

    I just looked up the prices, and.... wow. That's really amazing.

    Oath of Druids combo is now the right price for an un-sleeved casual deck. Wow. Get yourself some Orchards, some Oaths, and some of the cheaper targets (Worldspine Wurm, Empyrial Archangel, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell) and go to freak'n town.

    You could probably even construct a middling-to-tier-3 Vintage deck on a budget this way, even without power! Entry point into the format, anyone?

    Since we're not using power, for speed, I'd probably add Chrome Mox ($10) and Lotus Petal ($3),



  • @Brass-Man said:

    I'm confused - I don't particularly like Burning Oath lists, but I don't see where Swords to Plowshares is a serious problem against this deck. If I were playing a list like this I would desperately hope my opponent draws Swords against me over other disruption. If a Blightsteel gets plowed you still get Griselbrand next turn, if Griselbrand gets plowed you're up 14 cards and they're down 1.

    While this list doesn't have the kind of disruption/resilience that control-oath lists have, I think it's pretty obvious that the gameplan of this deck against a Containment Priest isn't "remove it" but "go for a Tendrils kill"

    Flusterstorm is definitely a pain for a Tendrils strategy, but in a combo deck, Duress is a much better answer to Flusterstorms than running your own. Defense Grids might be better still. I'm not sure you're evaluating this deck for what it is.

    I say it rolls over, not because its a burning tendrils list but because there is no viable disruption. 4 duress just isn't enough. Regardless of who he oaths up, STP is a timewalk that also removed 1/3 of your win cons. Not to mention you are now oathing a second time with only 1 creature in your deck - any oath player knows this the kind of oath you close your eyes and just pray the creature flips up sooner rather than later.

    Even an old-fashioned recoup would go a long way towards giving this deck some more resiliency. That second oath activation can be devastating when you only have 2 oath targets. If he really wants an oath combo list I think Kelly oath with bomberman is much stronger and more resilient.



  • you should always be running 4 mana confluence and then some number of Cities because of tangle wire



  • I own (16x each) misdirection and stifle (both insanely low price). Does stifle suffice against fluster storm? If I was going to add mana denial with stifle, I should also add wasteland and strip mine, and maybe crucible maybe?

    I also own two mental missteps and a recoup. Not adding necromancer was a brain fart, honestly.

    I also

    I wasn't running twister because I didn't want to risk making yawgmoth's will suck.

    I do own the audio salvager, but I was afraid that list might be too fragile with all the graveyard hate around.



  • @bleedth3sky

    Another $200 for show and tell, emerakul and omniscience isn't insane, but another $280 for the forces would break me. also, duals are out of the question at the moment, so I need to work within the 5c manabase.



  • @MaximumCDawg if your running 4 Foils over FOW to keep it budget you gotta run 4 Gush, even without fetches/duals, getting those islands in your hand and hopefully drawing thst blue card seems teh good for Foil.



  • @Doomhed said:

    @bleedth3sky

    Another $200 for show and tell, emerakul and omniscience isn't insane, but another $280 for the forces would break me. also, duals are out of the question at the moment, so I need to work within the 5c manabase.

    You could try other disruption then like defense grid.



  • @Khahan I don't think that Defense Grid gets the job done. Force of Will is a card that fulfills a very, very specific purpose in Vintage. It's a panic button on Turn 1 that prevents other decks from just running you over on the first turn. It also lets you tap out to do things while still having the shields up -- something that is even more important if you don't have power and so you're hurting for mana compared to your opponents.

    The only cards that realistically fill the same slot Force of Will does (in blue decks) are:

    Commandeer (but harder to cast)
    Foil (ditto)
    Thwart (super ditto, and since it's not a turn 1 play, probably a nobo)
    Disrupting Shoal (conditional, but this is mitigated by the narrow costs played in Vintage)
    Misdirection (like Thwart, it doesn't really deal with a turn 1 threat. It just wins counter wars.)
    Pact of Negation (a great card... but not on turn 1)

    The pitch removal spells from Alliances and Masques might also serve the FoW purpose, but only for particular, narrow matchups. For example, Pyrokenesis might be acceptable against white weenie.



  • @Serracollector said:

    @MaximumCDawg if your running 4 Foils over FOW to keep it budget you gotta run 4 Gush, even without fetches/duals, getting those islands in your hand and hopefully drawing thst blue card seems teh good for Foil.

    Daze can also get islands in hand. I like both cards in budget oath.

    @MaximumCDawg said:

    @Khahan I don't think that Defense Grid gets the job done. Force of Will is a card that fulfills a very, very specific purpose in Vintage. It's a panic button on Turn 1 that prevents other decks from just running you over on the first turn. It also lets you tap out to do things while still having the shields up -- something that is even more important if you don't have power and so you're hurting for mana compared to your opponents.

    The only cards that realistically fill the same slot Force of Will does (in blue decks) are:

    Commandeer (but harder to cast)
    Foil (ditto)
    Thwart (super ditto, and since it's not a turn 1 play, probably a nobo)
    Disrupting Shoal (conditional, but this is mitigated by the narrow costs played in Vintage)
    Misdirection (like Thwart, it doesn't really deal with a turn 1 threat. It just wins counter wars.)
    Pact of Negation (a great card... but not on turn 1)

    The pitch removal spells from Alliances and Masques might also serve the FoW purpose, but only for particular, narrow matchups. For example, Pyrokenesis might be acceptable against white weenie.

    Pact of Negation can be really great if you run Platinum Angels as your Oath of Druids targets. It would be important to win the mental misstep battle over their Swords on upkeep.



  • @Doomhed Your best bet is to go proactive discard like Duress or slot in Git probe and Cabal Therapy and run defense grid main.

    Essentially you need to be able to not lose to opponents forces, spell peirce's and Mana Drains while still being proactive enough to not die to storm on t2-3. While things like Pernicious Deed can keep anything off the board and in the sideboard stuff like Arcane Lab or Mystic Remora could be brought in against storm in addition to more discard.



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