[AER] Yahenni's Expertise



  • So, I'll take the bait and assume the 4 cards spoiled today are for real.
    Yahenni's Expertise called my attention, since we recently had a card with a similar mechanic make its way into Vintage. I'm not comparing Dark Petition's power with Expertise, and I feel Expertise is at best a meta or sideboard card. But isn't a Wrath that can also play your Mentor right after, for free, just great? I say Mentor but whatever, Walk, Recall, Will it has no color restriction like Petition.

    My problem with it is that it does nothing against larger Eldrazi, specially TKS. Also, Esper Mentor is not a deck right now, so the card has no place that I can point to. I mean, can this even be a sideboard card for Storm? But the card is powerful enough imo to grant attention.

    For anyone not aware of what it is:

    Yahenni's Expertise
    2BB
    Sorcery
    All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
    You may cast a card with cmc 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.



  • @fsecco It's a narrow, reactive card with a prohibitive mana cost. The upside is circumstantial and it interacts poorly against Thorn effects as you have to pay for both spells. It is unreliable against Mentor, bad against almost every other archetype, and has competition from better cards in better colors. I do not judge cards as "unplayable" but the requisite metagame and deckbuilding conditions are so unlikely or cumbersome that I would be absolutely astounded if this card were to see legitimate play.



  • First: esper mentor is a deck. Marcel Milia from LCV has played it all the year with great results.

    Second: It's expensive. If countered, you don't get second effect, and Matt has pointed to a bunch of issues. Besides it only would work in some decks. If I have a mentor and you have another, I don't want to play it most of the time.

    We will see, but it looks as a marginal card. Maybe in heavy control decks?



  • In addition to the above thoughts, both this spell and the one it cheats into play are taxed by Spheres and Thorns, easily spiraling the cost of this card into uselessness.



  • It's not a card I'd bring in against Shops, and I don't think it's a maindeck card, so the problem it has with Spheres doesn't bother me at all. Against Thalia though, it will kill Thalia before playing the second spell, so the second one won't be taxed (right?)



  • @fsecco said in [AER] Yahenni's Expertise:

    It's not a card I'd bring in against Shops, and I don't think it's a maindeck card, so the problem it has with Spheres doesn't bother me at all. Against Thalia though, it will kill Thalia before playing the second spell, so the second one won't be taxed (right?)

    I don't think so. Giving thalia -3/-3 and playing the second spell are all part of the resolution of this spell. Thalia does not go to the graveyard until state-based effects are checked, which is after the spell fully resolves. So I believe Thalia would still be in play in when you play the new spell.



  • @ChubbyRain said in [AER] Yahenni's Expertise:

    legitimate play.

    As opposed to illegitimate play?



  • @fsecco @Khahan

    Correct, state-based effects are not checked during the resolution of spells, only when players would gain priority. Thalia would still be in play when Yahenni's Expertise prompts it's caster to cast a spell and would tax that spell, then die immediately afterwards due to having zero toughness.

    http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/State-based_actions



  • @ajfirecracker I've been known to play cards on a dare...Palinchron comes to mind.



  • You're right, second spells gets taxed with Thalia too.

    I agree with you, @ChubbyRain , about the card's playability though. Supreme Verdict is probably better than this as an occasional sideboard against Mentor. Uncounterability seems better than mana advantage.



  • This card seems like it was specifically designed with Vintage in mind. It's horrid against sphere effects but very likely sweeps up Monastery Mentor and Monk tokens with possitive tempo advantage. Dealing with Mentor and the Monks with tempo advantage is exactly what several people on this forum were complaining was impossible around the time this card would have been in design/development. Where it falls down in that role is that it is a 4 mana spell that does nothing but lose the game for it's caster when it gets countered; therefore, it has to be played in a deck that has strong game against counter magic. This makes me think it belongs in a deck with duress effects such as Cabal Therapy.



  • Assuming the card is real, it's poised to be very powerful. The tempo issue just mentioned is the reason why. Massacre is a good card because it's free. This card is a bigger Massacre that, while not free, allows you to instantly follow up by virtually generating up to 3 mana. "Wipe your board, resolve my Dack" seems like a fine turn.

    However...

    It's bad against Spheres, as ya'll mentioned above. It's fine against tokens, except that being counterable might make a 4-cc spell a no-go against blue decks. There's a reason why we see Supreme Verdicts running around instead of Damnations...



  • We all said the same thing about Paradoxical Outcome too, right? "Bad against Spheres, etc". I agree, but this kind of discussion is to narrow... "Worse than Jace", "Bad against Spheres", etc, are all valid points, but none of them make a card unplayable, as we've seen several times now.

    I'd imagine the best case scenario is "Kill your Mentor and tokens, play my Mentor for free". Still not sure if better than Supreme Verdict for the job, but still, a nice swingy play.


  • TMD Supporter

    Unless people are using the ability on the card to cheat suspend cards or something I don't see it being relevant. However, it is a really interesting design space so I won't be 100% shocked if someone finds a way to do something with this thing. Does anyone know how it interacts with split cards with fuse? Is there something there worthwhile? Probably not. Brain in a Jar never did anything in any format that I'm aware of (nothing "legitimate" at least).



  • Has anyone ever tried Shardless BUG in Vintage? This card has some dyssynergy with Deathrite Shaman and Shardless Agent that would have to be carefully considered/addressed.



  • In an Esper shell I can't help but feel I'd rather have supreme verdict if I'm looking for a wrath.



  • @Islandswamp The interaction with split cards is a solid upside, in that you can do things like cast Bust with a Boom // Bust and Beck & Call, if you so desire.


  • TMD Supporter

    @mickey.nobilis said in [AER] Yahenni's Expertise:

    @Islandswamp The interaction with split cards is a solid upside, in that you can do things like cast Bust with a Boom // Bust and Beck & Call, if you so desire.

    There's one split card that acts like a shallow grave too. I forget the Mana cost though.

    I wonder if they'll make that card part of a cycle, or print more like it.



  • The interaction with split cards was not enough for Brain in a Jar, though, and I really liked that card. I run it in a casual deck alongside Isochron Scepter. When you get to trigger your Brain on turn 2 for four 1/1 birds and four cards, life is pretty good.

    This one can't even cheat out the split cards early. I mean, sure, it's fun to get the tempo advantage of doing something broken right as you board wipe, but you're still waiting a bit to do it. Is it worth stinking your hand up with a split card the whole time...?



  • @MaximumCDawg

    No not in vintage



  • I can definitely see this played in Gush Doomsday.


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