Making The Mana Drain Better!

Why is the typography so bad? I only read it on mobile, but I prefer it to fx MTGSalvation.

@wappla My advice is to just choose not to be insulted for the time being. Lets just prioritize a list of things that should get done, and pick them off one at a time as they can be completed. In the mean time we could all be writing/linking in relevant info for newbies and trying to generate more traffic. That's always a good place to start.

@wappla said in Making The Mana Drain Better!:

@Topical_Island I'm insulted by the explanation of "Brassman's full plate" when Brassman's workload is irrelevant to considering he isn't the one working on it. I spent a significant amount of time creating a first draft, sent it to him and offered to alter it as requested, and have been completely ignored for eight months.

Instead of speculating why the post quality is so low on this site, and there is little in depth content, maybe we could finally do something about making it less painful to read a full sentence.

I'm not so sure whats so painful about reading this site. I used the slate background and that really helped clean things up and make the flow of the site a LOT easier to follow. No background or most other choices and the site is not that great to read, though.

@Khahan Yeah, it works fine for me too, but in the interest of not piling on here, let's just say that it's working poorly for @wappla and that at some point in the future it would be nice to look at that. Great, done for now. In the mean time lets all look at things we can actually do to spruce up the joint. Things like what @yugular is up to, I think, are great. He's trying to organize an online tourney on this site while also producing content about Belcher and linking it here. Now that's what I'm talking about. More of that please.

Not sure why so many people are arguing against improving the user experience in a thread titled "Making The Mana Drain Better!"

This shit isn't zero sum. Many things can be improved. You don't have to choose one or the other. Just because it could be worse doesn't mean it's good. Starting to doubt the average user of this site is capable of making a logically valid argument.

If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. This site has been running for eight months without any meaningful improvements. At least the old mana drain had continuity of record with the past. This forum suggests there is no substance to the format besides people bitching about Gush, whining about Randy Buehler, and wildly misevaluating awful cards. If you fail to understand how the design of an environment (digital or physical) affects your behavior in the environment, the logical thing to do is to A) go learn about design B) let someone else design buildings and bridges, instead of telling them to shut up and go away.

last edited by wappla

@wappla I'm working on a general write up on Oath. Would you like to help me with it? I follow your finishes, mainly with Gush decks right?... and I'd love some feedback on it.

Also, what do you think about the resources we have up on TMD for Gush decks? My wife plays Gush Mentor and she's on a crazy losing streak right now. Right now she's on Brennan's list from Champs, but I don't really know what to tell her and there isn't a ton of in depth stuff... (Well, there is a book, but I wish there were more on here.) What say you?

I have observed a few instances of users outright stating that that they are no longer interested in posting here (@stsung most recently), and I have MANY times over the past few months typed a response to a thread and deleted it. TMD is not always a friendly place, and I find it nearly comical the reactions that @wappla is receiving here. His delivery may have been a tad coarse, but his statement was a simple one. This has become a thread that highlights everything that has gone wrong quote @wappla above : italicised textNot sure why so many people are arguing against improving the user experience in a thread titled "Making The Mana Drain Better!"italicised text

TMD is approaching Hearthstone forum levels of unreadable from a content point of view. I hope this thread generates real improvements in the long term.

@p3temangus I'm honestly getting a little lost here. I am for improvements. I'm pretty sure everyone is for improvements. Andy seems for them too and also busy, so I would expect that at some point in the future we would see those improvements, but I'm not sure where else to go with that other than be nice to each other and wait around for them to happen? Is there another proposal on the table here?

In the mean time lets us users pick other things that we can fix and fix them. That probably means quality of content... or at least that's where I'm aiming. I agree that the quality of content can be low sometimes. I also like that anyone can just hop on and say whatever they want. I think that's a good feature of this kind of forum... so in my opinion, anyone who thinks content quality is low should right away try to up the average by producing good content. That's where I'm at.

So as the person who started the thread, I thought I made it pretty clear that the topic was in reference to user behavior, rather than things requiring any dev time. We don't have control over that. Please, if you want to ask why people are upset about your focus, make sure you understand with what purpose the thread was created?

I don't think anyone is arguing against site usability, nor do I think anyone's trying to attack wappla. Remember that nobody in this thread has seen wappla's redesign but me - I think people just want to understand what he's suggesting.

Let's be careful about using the word "unreadable" to mean both typography and content - those are both important things, but they require completely unrelated solutions.


@wappla - At some point I must have given you the impression that I didn't want your help or your opinion. I absolutely do, even if it takes me a long time to act on that information. I know things could be moving faster, but we're in much better shape than we were when SCG owned the site. We weren't allowed to make basic security patches to the site for 10 years, nevermind template changes or plugins. If you had wanted a typography update under SCG, it would have been impossible. While there are some very generous Patreon supporters of the site, currently TMD runs at a loss, which means the time I split between posting/moderating/sysadmining/featurework is all volunteer, and there isn't much of it.

I've already explained in this thread exactly what needs to happen to change the typography/layout with more granularity than the skins can to. A NodeBB Plugin with the appropriate HTML and CSS changes would reduce the amount of work I need to do from development to just testing. The development docs for NodeBB are here: . If you have the ability/bandwidth to work on a plugin that implements the changes you think would be an improvement, I would be thrilled to have the help.


@p3temangus - unfortunately this issue is a lot trickier. While everybody on the site things improved usability is a good thing, not everybody agrees on what set of rules makes for a better community, or what kind of conversations they want to read. People have voiced very strong, and very opposite opinions about how to handle single-card discussion threads.

Is there any way you can be more specific about the sort of posts that you think are problematic? I've re-read the posts in this thread and I'm not seeing what you're seeing, but that might be an internet/tone thing. If you'd rather talk about it over PM/Facebook, I'm cool with that, too.

Ultimately, if you think TMD's moderation/community guidelines just don't work for the kind of content you want to post, or community you want to build, I'm not at all offended by starting a new community elsewhere. The point of TMD is to support a healthier, bigger format - If that means using TMD to help promote other communities with different focuses, I'm totally fine with that.

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