Lotus petal- time to set it free?



  • @Smmenen Fair enough.



  • @Smmenen I miss 2012 a lot; I was like, the ONLY person playing Gush back then. Because Dack, Dig, Treasure Cruise, Pyromancer, and Mentor weren't cards. Man, playing 4 Bolt Gush decks against decks with 4 Dark Confidants and playing 4 Bolts + 2 Sabotage + Ancient Grudge against the 4 Lodestone/4 metamorph/52 Duds was awesome.



  • @Soly said in Lotus petal- time to set it free?:

    @Smmenen I miss 2012 a lot; I was like, the ONLY person playing Gush back then. Because Dack, Dig, Treasure Cruise, Pyromancer, and Mentor weren't cards. Man, playing 4 Bolt Gush decks against decks with 4 Dark Confidants and playing 4 Bolts + 2 Sabotage + Ancient Grudge against the 4 Lodestone/4 metamorph/52 Duds was awesome.

    120 specific results from people who top 8ed or better with 4 Gushes in 2012

    http://morphling.de/search.php?id=32&type=3&app=10&search=Gush&sorting=DESC&sent=1

    And there's probably double that in 2011.



  • @Soly I sense a bit of sarcasm in your post, lol.



  • @Ten-Ten

    "I miss 2012 a lot" (Not sarcasm; I was still good back then, still owned my cards, didn't get into legal trouble, and also was about 20 pounds less than I currently am)

    "I was like, the ONLY person playing back then". (Sarcasm)

    "Man, playing 4 bolt Gush decks against 4 Dark Confidants and playing 4 Bolts + 2 Sabotage + Ancient Grudge against the 4 Lodestone/4 metamorph/52 Duds was awesome." (Not Sarcasm. My win rate against Shops was LITERALLY 100% from mid-2011 when the first incarnation of RUG Delver was built all the way until I put down RUG Delver after Champs 2012)

    The truth is, there were a LOT of people playing Gush; but not many people until me playing Tempo. That's what I liked... not having to play Gush Tempo mirrors.



  • I wanna get back to Petal a bit.

    I think the best way to analyze the effects petal would have is not to look at decks like storm or outcome, but to look for decks that play petal but not offcolor moxen. These are decks that are going to be significantly improved because they rely on quick early mana that's on color. Not to say that the affect on yawg will decks is irrelevant (though for outcome, where you need to use the mana multiple times to be good, I think it's not play more), but just that you're competing with more slots and getting less value.

    What decks does this refer to? For the most part, we're talking about white hatebears/Eldrazi getting a boost, both of those decks being notorious as white decks starved for white mana and the end result is more early hate pieces. Other decks that aren't meta right now (at least for playing petal) include Merfolk getting earlier lords and still playing somewhat to their nullrod plan, though I'm not sure we'd see 4 petals there, and Doomsday which is fairly tight, but really needs it's fast mana to be on color. This isn't everything, of course, just a quick search on mtgTop8, but it shows that people are barking up the wrong trees with petal.


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    @structuremole for what it's worth, I don't think Lotus Petal is very good in White Eldrazi, even as a 1-of, nevermind 4. I suspect Paradoxical Outcome decks running Chrome Mox already would get a much bigger boost.



  • I think it might help decks running Leovold and/or Kambal, or cards like Meddling Mage, the cards that cost 2-3 mana but REALLY cost 3-4 mana due to multiple colors. I would love to be able to drop Leovold Turn 1 against these PO decks, or against about anything other than Oath/Eldrazi



  • There is nothing to shutter a 4 lotus petal from doing its thing besides null rod. It can't be misstepped and shop decks only have 1 chalice.

    I agree lotus petal would just supercharge outcome decks.

    Lotus petal would also be strong in storm because it combos well with cabal ritual, dark petition, yawgmoth's will.

    Petal would also be sweet in mono blue and turn 1 belcher decks.

    There is no "healthy" deck benefiting from 4 lotus petal and even if its not absurd right after unrestriction your essentially just creating a timebomb that has to be dealt with in the future.


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