[AER] Whir of Invention



  • alt text
    Whir of Invention
    XUUU
    Instant
    Improvise (Your artifacts can help cast this spell. Each artifact you tap after you're done activating mana abilities pays for 1.)
    Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost X or less, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.

    Well, this effect is always nice, although Transmute Artifact doesn't see much play these days.
    This only caught my attention because it's an instant way to fetch Black Lotus, and you don't even need a Mox to sacrifice. Maybe it can be really good in Salvagers combo, while also being able to get Vault or Key even with "mana" generated from stuff like Graf Cage or Sensei Top.



  • Isn't that Painter's Servant guy always naming blue?



  • said in [AER] Whir of Invention:

    Vault or Key even with "mana" generated from stuff like Graf Cage or Sensei Top.

    There are a lot of cases where you're not going to like your options if you have a grafdiggers cage on the table.

    Aside from instant speed, in what way is this better at fetching things for salvagers than Trinket mage, who can be named with cavern of souls?


  • TMD Supporter

    This is another exciting card that is most likely not good enough.

    Tinker cheats on mana. Transmute artifact and reshape aren't played and I think they're cheaper. The artifacts that you'd use for improvise already tap for mana... You gonna tap Sol Ring to improvise for 1?

    Triple blue is the cheapest this card ever gets. So you can fetch a lotus and break even, unless you end step it and wait until your main phase.



  • Best advantage is that this is an instant. So in time vault control, if you cast this EOT, they have to fight over it and you can untap into tezzerret or something equally powerful.



  • @Protoaddct I wouldn't say this is better than Trinket Mage in Salvagers. I actually don't even think Bomberman is a good deck right now. Salvagers combo is best played in Oath these days, it seems.
    Someone mentioned High Tide to me (probably better in Legacy) since this fetches Candelabra.

    I'm not posting tested or proven stuff here. It's spoiler season. The whole reason is to discuss the cards and see if their good or bad. Sometimes you see a card with potential, but can't think of anything really good with it and someone pops in with a great idea. We should just stop harassing spoiler threads, asking only for broken-proven stuff. That's just a bad community.

    @spook It's an instant and doesn't require an artifact. So it can be played in an artifact-light deck (something without the full Moxen, for example). This could be relevant.


  • TMD Supporter

    I am in the process of writing about this thing. I think it's better than Transmute Artifact since you're not burning two cards and it's an instant, but Transmute Artifact isn't exactly a hot commodity right now.



  • @fsecco Did not mean my post as a dismissive one but as genuine inquiry. Similar to that new 1 mana black removal spell, it has competition to do similar things that I cannot see around. The argument for this card to me is when is it better/ a better fit than other cards we have that do see play, and right now the most compelling one is that its not a creature like trinket mage so it can be run in oath.



  • @Protoaddct I usually post spoiler cards here to discuss them, not to defend them as great cards. So I see no problem at all in your post. I'm just tired of people here being so up their a**es during spoiler season, meaning they can't seem to enjoy the thought experiment, just wanting the good stuff hand delivered. It's annoying and making me contemplate just quitting TMD altogether.



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  • Administrators

    On the source there are very strict rules about what is and isn't allowed in a single-card-discussion thread. I don't know that I want to institute a set of formal guidelines, but I do wish some more thought/work went into these threads. If you can't be bothered to play even a single test game with the card you're talking about, how useful is the discussion going to be? Why would anyone else in the thread bother to play a single test game, either?

    I appreciate that it's frustrating to make a thread and have your ideas dismissed, but spoiler season isn't a season anymore, wotc has cultivated it to be a year-round phenomena, and more than half of TMD strategy threads are posts for cards that never end up seeing play, written by people who have not written up a single test decklist to discuss, or played a single test game with the card. This is also pretty frustrating for people who are coming to the site looking to learn about the format, or get a handle on the current metagame, or improve their play. That's no excuse for people to be assholes, but I understand the frustration.



  • @Brass-Man If we only posted threads about cards that met that criteria this board would be vacant of posts save for people congratulating people for tourney wins and talking about when the 37th revision of the Gush book is coming out.

    I think there is a line, but most threads are not devoid of content, its not like people are posting draft filler here, and most people can look at a card without play test and at least understand from heuristic metrics if it is worth discussion, not necessarily if it will or won't see play.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Brass-Man

    Maybe a subcategory for single card discussion for spoiler cards that are not released yet? Just a thought, maybe not a great one.


  • Administrators

    @Protoaddct said in [AER] Whir of Invention:

    @Brass-Man If we only posted threads about cards that met that criteria this board would be vacant of posts save for people congratulating people for tourney wins and talking about when the 37th revision of the Gush book is coming out.

    Seriously? the criteria was "Play a single test game with the card". How is this difficult criteria for a fan of the format? If you don't like a card enough to spend 20 minutes playing with it, what about that makes you think it's worth discussing? If no one on this website is willing to play a single game of vintage, maybe the website shouldn't be active.



  • Andy, I understand your desire to keep The Mana Drain held to a certain standard of quality. It makes sense to winnow out posts that peddle misinformation, trolling, incoherence, and so on. It's a good idea to try to elevate the discourse. But, for whatever it's worth, I would be above any kind of bright line rule about what cards are or are not worthy of a thread.

    I've got a few reasons for this:

    1. Playing a test game with a card is work

    It's not much work, sure, but it is some work. Anytime you increase the cost to get something, you will lower the amount of it you get. I know that I usually check The Mana Drain when I'm on breaks at the office. I do not have an opportunity to playtest a card spoiled that day. When I finally get home, I may or may not have the energy left after work to proxy something up and mess around with it. I cannot imagine this is a unique situation. As a practical matter, a rule like you propose would lower the number of threads and contributors to threads.

    2. Ongoing discussion between members of The Drain has value.

    ...even where the discussion is over a bad card. I know we're not primarily a social website, and some of us (like me!) are totally unknown to the core group personally. Even so, the fact that we have a bunch of 30+ Vintage players chatting online in a forum about something that interests us has social value and contributes to all of us staying in the format.

    On top of that, analysis of why a card is bad is a good thing to have around, too. Just because we have threads for the 6cc Anjani and Tezzeret does not mean that the level of discourse in those threads was all worthless. With respect, the least worthwhile posts in those thread were probably those where people took personal offense at the fact that the thread was made or the fact that other people were so offended.

    3. Theorycrafting is fun.

    This is the biggest reason to avoid hard and fast rules, I think. We're here on the Drain because we enjoy being here. We contribute because we want to hear others' thoughts. This isn't Team Meandeck / Serious / whatever's Testing Forum, where only the lean and mean proven decks and new tech can be discussed. It's a place for us to interact and enjoy ourselves.

    @Brass-Man said in [AER] Whir of Invention:

    If no one on this website is willing to play a single game of vintage, maybe the website shouldn't be active.

    As to this... let's be real, opportunities to play real Vintage are rare unless you've invested in MTGO. I used to have access to weekly sanctioned Vintage, then it went away. I've tried to revive it, and no one cares. I can play casual and EDH and cube with my kids, but I do not trust my Vintage collection with The Sticky at this point. So, no, I actually don't get to play much Vintage at all. I regret that.

    Even then, I do enjoy WATCHING and TALKING about it. It's nerd football. E-Sports. There's nothing wrong with that. :)

    P.S. Good luck in the play-in tournament tonight!



  • @Brass-Man I think in general the best way to have these types of discussions while not having a thread pop up for every card is to have single thread for each new set that people can discuss new cards and their hype/playability. Then that way if a card ever does really break away and show it's more than just an interesting card to theory craft over (ie Paradoxical Outcome) then a SCD thread can be made to go deeper into it.



  • @chaosofslayer said in [AER] Whir of Invention:

    @Brass-Man I think in general the best way to have these types of discussions while not having a thread pop up for every card is to have single thread for each new set that people can discuss new cards and their hype/playability. Then that way if a card ever does really break away and show it's more than just an interesting card to theory craft over (ie Paradoxical Outcome) then a SCD thread can be made to go deeper into it.

    This is how The Source handles it and the overlapping conversations are sufficiently confusing that I don't participate in, or even read, that thread.

    We should probably have a community thread specifically addressing this rather than having the discussion about spoiler discussion taking place across several spoiler threads.


  • Administrators

    @MaximumCDawg - thanks for the well-thought out post, those are all fair points.

    To be clear, I'm not looking to institute a policy of restricting these threads at this time. There is a serious quality problem with these threads though and I am looking for ways to improve it. @mdkubiak 's and @chaosofslayer 's suggestions are both pretty reasonable. I understand that people don't always have the time to put in to make higher quality posts, but it often feels like no one ever does - and players that are interested in that sort of thing have already quit the site (this is not conjecture, it's a common complaint I get privately). I'm still looking for a way to let people on TMD keep enjoying vintage as an E-Sport without alienating the people who are interested in playing in tournaments. I haven't figured out how yet.



  • @Brass-Man Perhaps a tag would do it? Just tag your single card post with #playtested or something if you actually have generated data?

    @chaosofslayer Yeah, this is actually how MTGTheSource does it, for the most part. Each set gets its own thread as it is spoiled and we just gab about the new cards there.

    @thecravenone said in [AER] Whir of Invention:

    This is how The Source handles it and the overlapping conversations are sufficiently confusing that I don't participate in, or even read, that thread.

    Ninja'd!


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