Deck Help Please



  • Hello, any opinions or help on my deck posted below would be much appreciated.

    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Fire/Ice
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Force of Will
    1x Hurkyl's Recall
    1x Lightning Bolt
    1x Mana Drain
    3x Mental Misstep
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Thirst for Knowledge
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Ponder
    1x Time Walk
    1x Tinker
    1x Yawgmoth's Will
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    2x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Time Vault
    1x Voltaic Key
    2x Island
    1x Library of Alexandria
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Polluted Delta
    4x Scalding Tarn
    1x Tolarian Academy
    2x Underground Sea
    2x Volcanic Island
    1x Dack Fayden
    2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Tezzeret the Seeker
    3x Dark Confidant
    1x Inkwell Leviathan
    1x Snapcaster Mage

    Sideboard (15)
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Grafdigger's Cage
    3x Ingot Chewer
    1x Mountain
    1x Notion Thief
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Ravenous Trap
    1x Toxic Deluge
    2x Viashino Heretic



  • What do you want help with?



  • Waiter... I'll have one of everything!

    This deck certainly looks powerful. Have you played with it much? It looks great, but at a glance it looks really untuned. This deck could be a winner or a loser based on what it's playing, and against the total play environment, I'd wager that it has problems against things like Shops, Eldrazi, and probably even things like Combo because I doubt it's faster than Outcome/Storm decks. It just seems like it could be in an awkward metagame spot, despite being packed with super-powerful cards. What is your experience playing it?



  • @Topical_Island I've been playing variations of this deck for about 2 years, but not against real opponents unfortunately, mostly goldfishing. What would be the best way to tune it for the metagame, just play test it against the meta decks? Thank you for the reply.


  • TMD Supporter

    For reading purposes

    ---Planeswalkers---
    1x Dack Fayden
    2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Tezzeret the Seeker

    ---Creatures---
    3x Dark Confidant
    1x Inkwell Leviathan
    1x Snapcaster Mage

    ---Artifacts---
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    2x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Time Vault
    1x Voltaic Key

    ---Instants/Sorcerys---
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Fire/Ice
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Force of Will
    1x Hurkyl's Recall
    1x Lightning Bolt
    1x Mana Drain
    3x Mental Misstep
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Thirst for Knowledge
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Ponder
    1x Time Walk
    1x Tinker
    1x Yawgmoth's Will

    ---Lands---
    2x Island
    1x Library of Alexandria
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Polluted Delta
    4x Scalding Tarn
    1x Tolarian Academy
    2x Underground Sea
    2x Volcanic Island

    ---Sideboard (15)---
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Grafdigger's Cage
    3x Ingot Chewer
    1x Mountain
    1x Notion Thief
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Ravenous Trap
    1x Toxic Deluge
    2x Viashino Heretic

    My questions I would ask is why Mana Drain, why Inkwell Leviathan, and why Dark Confidant? My issue with Dark Confidant, you have 8 (just from a cursory glance) spells that do 4 or more damage. Inkwell will do serious damage.



  • @dragoscar I really really suggest that if you are goldfishing, take some extra time to print out or proxy up a couple other decks in the most common archetypes. At home I have a Shops deck, a Gush/Mentor deck, a Storm deck (mines still dark petition so I have to update that our to Outcome), all glued onto Homelands cards (clearly what that set exists for)... So that when I feel like Goldfishing, I can play out the first couple turns against those other decks. I just lay the hands out and try to play perfectly from both sides.

    If I were you, I would just grab a good Shops list that finished high in some tourney and play against that, since it's likely your worst matchup. Just see how it plays and then start altering your list to beat the Shops deck... Also, you might want to play at least one Paradoxical Outcome because with as much artifact acceleration as you have, it would probably be insane.



  • A deck from 2010.To be 2017 deck it require 2 delve drawers at least.They may expel dark confidant.



  • @Saya I was originally playing treasure cruise but it seemed underwhelming: I don't have a way to fill my graveyard very fast and it makes yawg will and snapcaster worse


  • TMD Supporter

    @dragoscar

    I think Dig Through Time is necessary over Treasure Cruise. You want to find your combo quickly and Dig allows you to see a lot of your deck. It's more important to this deck then Treasure Cruise.



  • @dragoscar both Dig and Cruise are good examples too, of cards that get better when you aren't just goldfishing. After a counter battle, they are both excellent last cards to be holding in an otherwise empty hand and a bunch of spent counterspells sitting in the graveyard. Also, this might indicate that a Dack Fayden would be good in your deck. It would help fuel these spells, as well as giving you a way to fight against Shops decks.



  • I started with a similar deck when I first tried my hand at Vintage.

    I would suggest cutting some of the "weaker" (read: bad in current metagame) cards such as Mana Drain, Fire//Ice, Inkwell Leviathan and Dark Confidant. Instead, I would try Sphinx of the Steel Wind as your robot and increase your Thirst for Knowledge count or try the Paradoxical Outcome engine if you find room for more artifact mana acceleration (Chrome and Opal Moxen).

    Good luck!



  • @Topical_Island What would you recommend taking out for dig, or perhaps dack, if you don't mind.



  • @dragoscar Well as other's have suggested, things like Dark Confident are just not well positioned right now in Vintage. They don't really hang with Gush decks turn by turn in terms of drawing through your deck, and a lot of decks are pressuring life totals like Eldrazi and Shops. So I would cut those. Mana Drain is also pretty out of fashion right now. Both of these are good cards, but they just aren't good right now. I would cut the Confidants for planeswalkers and try that. I would cut Drains for Mindbreak trap or Flusterstorm... then I would test.

    Also... since you are already going to be a little soft to Null Rod anyways... could you run Thoughcast in this deck? Might as well have the upside of a big draw spell if you are running that much artifact anyways.



  • @dragoscar it would be good for us to hear from you what you are trying to get this deck to do. What's its gameplan? What are a few examples of common opening lines? How does this fare against commonly encountered competition?

    Having played this kind of deck about 3-4 years ago, I can describe it myself for this specific 75 very well. But since you're asking for help, hearing what you want the deck to do is valuable so that a.) we can advise on what card or card-group choices help you get there, and b.) whether getting there is actually what you want to be doing in the current environment.



  • @ribby Well I wanted the deck to be a control deck full of card advantage with the blue win conditions. Which is why there is 3 dark confidants. He was actually the first card to go in the deck, it's called confidant control. What I need help with is what is the best removal cards and counter spells to play, and what the right number of them is, and whether or not i have to run white to deal with eldrazi.



  • @Topical_Island I could take out the mana drain for a better counter spell, do you think another flusterstorm or pyroblast would be good, but I'd like to make the Bobs work because that is the card to first enter the deck as it's affectionately named confidant control. And I could replace thirst for thoughtcast, I think that would be better since I'm no longer running blightsteel, which makes thirst better. And would strip mine be worth playing?



  • @dragoscar Well, if you're set on Confidant then... I know all about pet cards. I just about always play Strip Mine in almost any deck since it's good in fast decks that pressure mana, and its good in long game type decks because it works against an opposing Library of Alexandria. I would certainly include it.

    If you want to leave the Bob's in, then maybe don't play Dig or Cruise cause they hurt a ton when you hit them... but just know that right now at least, Dig, Cruise, Dack is proving to be a faster and better path through your deck than Bobs and Yawg Will.

    If you are leaving Bob's in, you might want to add Preordains since they help get through the deck, find combo pieces, and sit something on top of your deck that doesn't make you die.



  • @Topical_Island Here's the changes I've made to the deck. Replaced inkwell leviathan with blightsteel colossus because blightsteel makes thirst, and dack much better and i like thirst more than thoughtcast in this deck. Replaced island for strip mine. Replaced Tezzeret and lightning bolt with 2 doom blade, because doom blade does everything swords to plowshares does but doesn't get countered by mental misstep and doesn't force me into white. And replaced mana vault with underground sea, because losing tezzeret makes mana vault not as good, and makes my deck a little bit stronger to null rod. Do you agree with any of these changes? Thank you for all your help btw, it's much appreciated.

    Here's the new full decklist:

    Instant (19)
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Brainstorm
    2x Doom Blade
    1x Fire/Ice
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Force of Will
    1x Hurkyl's Recall
    1x Mana Drain
    3x Mental Misstep
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Thirst for Knowledge
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    Creature (5)
    1x Blightsteel Colossus
    3x Dark Confidant
    1x Snapcaster Mage
    Planeswalker (3)
    1x Dack Fayden
    2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    Artifact (12)
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    2x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Time Vault
    1x Voltaic Key
    Land (16)
    1x Island
    1x Library of Alexandria
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Polluted Delta
    4x Scalding Tarn
    1x Strip Mine
    1x Tolarian Academy
    3x Underground Sea
    2x Volcanic Island
    Sorcery (5)
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Ponder
    1x Time Walk
    1x Tinker
    1x Yawgmoth's Will

    Sideboard (15)
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Grafdigger's Cage
    3x Ingot Chewer
    1x Mountain
    1x Notion Thief
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Ravenous Trap
    1x toxic deluge
    2x Viashino Heretic



  • @dragoscar Cool. I hope it works out for you. Please let me know how it works, especially Dark Confidant.


  • TMD Supporter

    I would argue that costing two makes doomblade a lot worse and it doesn't kill opposing tinker monsters which swords does. If you want something closer i would suggest dismember, or the new fatal push, or what has been pretty popular lately: snuff out.


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