Leovold_SuperControl



  • @Water0 LOL you're assuming we run more than 1, MAYBE 2 decays, AND they're not running Show and Tell right now, or just hardcasting their guys.

    Anyway, I welcome you to play Bug; check my list on MTGO by searching for Soly_TMD; you'll see the difference between my list and the dark confidant lists.. . namely, that there aren't any, cuz they can't win shit right now. And this is coming from a guy who's won over a dozen pieces of power years ago with Confidant Storm.



  • Seems BUG is all over MODO currently. From a Gush-Mentor perspective this is a super hard match-up, kind of like @Soly wrote that you spend so much removal on other things than Leovold that he is pretty much gg if he resolves. Abrupt decay also really bad since it is hard to get Mentor going properly. But even though I suddenly lose most games I like how the metagame is changing again. Just need to figure out what mentor can do to battle this now... ;)



  • Sidenote on Painful Truth: Ive cast it for 5 thanks to lotus and dealthrite against spheres. Desthrite makes the card easy to play, and sometimes you stabalize the board, and a 3 mana Draw 3 is nuts when your opponent only realistically has 4 fows that counter it.



  • I gave this list a try and got totally crushed by mentor...
    The only card they really care is leovold, isn't it?
    Also, by playing painful truth, why don't you want to play all moxen? 17 (including 1 strip 3 wastes) lands + 3 moxen is not much...



  • @CwaM Which list did you try?

    Brassman's list didn't have Jace, the Mind Sculptor, where as I have 3, and I find that they're just additional threats that are bomb. I also played Misdirection, and that card's been gasoline as well.



  • Has anyone tried Glissa, the Traitor in the SB or less likely MD?

    Glissa, the traitor GGB
    First strike, Deathtouch

    Whenever an opponent's creature dies, you may return an artifact from your graveyard to your hand

    3/3

    The first strike and death touch combination means that it kills thought-knot seer and reality smasher before receiving combat damage and its ability can allow you to recur baleful strix against eldrazi, tormod's crypts against dredge, engineered explosives against mentor, etc.



  • I've been playing Glissa in my BUG leovold deck for a few weeks now. It's great in the two matchups you mentioned. I liked it so much that I've added two trinket mages to find my copies of engineered explosives and nihil spellbomb. I haven't played this iteration in a daily yet but I'm hoping to tonight. Will let you know how it goes.



  • I been testing 4 Grim Flayers in my current iteration. 4/4 Tramplers are really good, ones that let you filter your top cards for dr shaman, delve cards, or to simply dig deeper on a BS/Preordain/Ponder/Sylvan Library has been amazing for me so far.



  • @the_zeeker

    Would you mind sharing your list?

    Marc



  • @marcb here you go, its been doing well against MUD variants and storm. Mentor Im prolly 50/50, Oath is my worst matchup for obv reasons being a dude deck. I would really, really like to fit in a 2nd tasigur with the Grim Flayers, they have been really really good. I am also tempted, but have no tried yet, to test out Walking Ballista, just to have some mroe artifacts to get Delirium on quicker.

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 5 Artifact
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Lotus Petal

    // 14 Creature
    1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    4 Grim Flayer
    2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

    // 1 Enchantment
    1 Sylvan Library

    // 19 Instant
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    3 Gush
    4 Force of Will
    3 Mental Misstep
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Fatal Push

    // 18 Land
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island

    // 3 Sorcery
    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Time Walk
    1 Demonic Tutor

    // 15 Sideboard
    // 3 Artifact
    SB: 3 Null Rod

    // 4 Enchantment
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

    // 8 Instant
    SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 2 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Nature's Claim
    SB: 2 Steel Sabotage



  • Here's the list I registered Sunday Night. I went 2-2 the two losses were to Mentor and I beat Doomsday and Saheeli Oath.

    Trinket BUG (61)

    Creatures (13)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Glissa, the Traitor
    1 Trygon Predator

    Permission (9)
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Misdirection

    Draw/Tutor (9)
    1 Ancenstral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    1 Demonic Tutor
    2 Painful Truths
    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Dig Through Time

    Board Control (4)
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Fatal Push

    Trinket Package (3)
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Chalice of the Void

    Mana (23)
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Wasteland
    2 Cavern of Souls
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Bayou
    1 Island
    1 Forest

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Wasteland
    2 Nature's Claim
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Null Rod
    1 Glissa, the Traitor
    1 Trygon Predator
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Fatal Push

    I really like the Trinket Mage package. Engineered Explosives and Chalice of the Void are great in this deck. I don't miss the maindeck Null Rods at all. Chalice is especially great with Cavern and Abrupt Decay as I can easily set it to 1 against Mentor, or 2 against Oath and feel like I'm not giving up much at all. All of the creatures in the deck are either elves or humans (except the misers trygon predator) so I can set Cavern to either creature type and reliably cast and resolve my creatures. In control matchups I find myself tutoring for Cavern of Souls more than any other card.

    One card I haven't been thrilled with is Fatal Push. It either gets misstepped or I can't trigger revolt when I really need it. I'm going to replace the one in the maindeck with a murderous cut, and the one in the board with another Engineered Explosives.

    Up until Sunday I had been playing with Rashmi Eternities Crafter as a one of in the maindeck. Rashmi is a powerhouse but I find that it does nothing the turn I play it and it usually doesn't stick around for long. If I can untap with it in play or have a counterspell to play on my opponent's turn it's usually worth it. I replaced it with a Trygon Predator on Sunday, but I'm thinking about putting a Jace, the Mindsculptor in that spot.

    The last question I have is whether it is still worth it to play Wasteland. The manabase is stretched thin already with all the colored mana requirements. I prefer Caverns to Wastelands, and I'm actually thinking about cutting the Wastelands for 1 Swamp and 1 additional fetch.

    If I had to sleeve it up tomorrow this is probably the list I would play:

    Trinket BUG (61)

    Creatures (12)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Glissa, the Traitor

    Permission (9)
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Misdirection

    Draw/Tutor (10)
    1 Ancenstral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    1 Time Walk
    1 Demonic Tutor
    2 Painful Truths
    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Jace, the Mindsculptor

    Board Control (4)
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Murderous Cut

    Trinket Package (3)
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Chalice of the Void

    Mana (23)
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Cavern of Souls
    3 Misty Rainforest
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Bayou
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Nature's Claim
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Null Rod
    1 Glissa, the Traitor
    1 Trygon Predator
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Open Slots



  • @Serracollector I'm a big fan of Grim Flayer as a card so seeing someone run it in Vintage is fun to see. I was discussing it with Rich Shay yesterday and I was wondering which match-ups you feel it does it's best work in. With Tarmogoyf around as beef do you feel the card selection ability on Flayer make it worth the play despite the potentially awkward mana cost?



  • The card has been absolutely amazing. The mana cost is negligible compared to Goyf, since your not running turn 1 Grim anyways, and wouldnt be with Goyf in this list either since it only runs 3 moxen, lotus, and in my case petal to help reach delirium. Turn 1 your dropping a dr. Shaman or wasting thier turn 1 land. Turn 2 your setting up your hand or a leovold, or Grim/Jace plus protection or backup. I would like to add EE or maybe some duress/thoughtseize, and may even try a singleton seal of primordium/pernicious deed, in there as additional backup turn 2 and for delirium. As far as his card selection ability it has been nuts crazy good. Think what dack does with Gush, he does it but up to 3 cards. Either binning lands to find business to Gush into, fueling delve for cruise dig or tasigur, or finding fodder for jace vryn, all has been great. I might even add back in yawg win. It being a 4/4 trampler is no small thing either. It has won me several games that bob, dack, preordain, or top, would have not due to its filtering ability and huge body. I really cant say enough about it. I highly suggest ppl try it out.



  • I'll defer to your testing over my theorycrafting, but in a creature-heavy format like the one we are in, I'm suspicious of a bear that needs to connect before it does anything. At least Mr. Pyrostatic Pillar had haste to help him get in there...



  • Looks like madlameguy has been having some pretty good success online with his list. Noticeably, Crucible and Flusterstorm has been cut from the maindeck in favor of Reclamation Sage and Fatal Push. I haven't tested the manabase, but it looks pretty greedy compared to Call1Me1Dragon's list from the last vintage challenge. I'm sure that's wholly mitigated by Deathrite Shaman however.



  • @qq Yes, my mana base is very greedy. The goal was to mitigate the library with the two multicolor lands (Cavern of Souls and Mana Confluence), along with Deathrite Shaman. I've been enjoying the list very much, but I think that something along the lines of the gush package in Jeremy Beaver's list might be simply better than Painful Truths:

    http://eemagic.com/findDeck.php?player=79425012&event=17-03-9717990

    You'll notice that his manabase is rock solid compared to mine, having cut all utility lands. I tested a hybrid version a bit last night in the practice rooms and thought that the deck did very well. I did not cut the Cavern. It is sometimes awkward, but casting an uncounterable Leovold is backbreaking against some decks.

    I did play Managorger Hydra, and it was ridiculous as a mid game threat, though I don't think it would work as well in a non-gush list.

    I also want to note that I was at EE6, but that I went 3-3 drop. I wasn't as happy as with my results online, though the metagames are obviously different.

    In the end, I think that the key parts of the deck are:

    • Creatures: Leovold, Snapcaster/Tiny Jace, Deathrite Shamans

    • The obvious card advantage: Ancestral, Recall, Time Walk, DTT, Ponder, etc, along with some number of big Jace.

    • Interaction: Force, Misstep, Abrupt Decay, and other disruption like Null Rod, creature removal and Thoughtseize.

    The part that's up in the air as far as I'm concerned is the ancillary card advantage engine. I've seen three variants:

    • Painful Truths - This can be a little slow and sometimes rots in your hand, especially against the taxing decks. Requires a higher land count. Advantages are that you can flash it back easily and it doesn't get hit by Pyroblast, but also can't be pitched to Force of Will. (Also, occasionally you get to draw four or five cards with tax effects out.) This is what I've been playing.

    • Dark Confidant - The best engine against Thalia and Thorn. Provides a clock while also generating cards. I don't have any experience playing Bob in this deck, but others have tried it to obvious success, and I'd be willing to give it a shot, though it does seem like the most painful option to me, and I'm worried about Walking Ballista.

    • Gush - Draws fewer cards than Painful Truths, but encourages a smaller, more solid mana base. People know why Gush is good. I really don't want it to be better than Painful Truths in this shell, but it probably is. Also sub-par against shops decks, but has the advantage of protecting against strip mine effects. I noodled around in the practice rooms with this last night, and it was excellent.

    Anyhow, that's where I am with my testing. I sometimes post in the Vintage Magic Facebook group, but if this is a better outlet, I'm glad to switch.



  • Not entirely sure this is the right forum, so please ignore/redirect if not. My deck is in a similar vein to those discussed here but not exactly. I played 4c Leovold to 9th (5-1-1) at EE6, IDing in round 7 because apparently when tired I can't do basic math. This deck evolved from BUG 2/1 control a few years ago to 4c and recently dropped the bobs for more powerful draw once Leovold came out. I have won and top 8ed a few smaller tournaments with it along the way. As built it is a touch soft to dredge but has plenty of play in the matchup. I feel favored against shops and the other control decks. Mentor is pretty even. It still runs an old school tutor package (demonic and vampiric). For this tournament I was extremely happy with my build and would run back the same 75. It is a slow control deck, and lacks any "oops, I win" elements that so many vintage decks have, so it is certainly not for everyone. I would appreciate thoughts.

    4c Control
    Instant (19)
    3x Abrupt Decay
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Dig Through Time
    1x Flusterstorm
    4x Force of Will
    2x Lightning Bolt
    3x Mental Misstep
    1x Spell Pierce
    1x Spell Snare
    1x Vampiric Tutor

    Creature (10)
    4x Deathrite Shaman
    1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3x Snapcaster Mage
    1x True-Name Nemesis
    1x Trygon Predator

    Sorcery (4)
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Thoughtseize
    1x Time Walk
    1x Treasure Cruise

    Land (17)
    2x Flooded Strand
    2x Misty Rainforest
    2x Polluted Delta
    1x Scalding Tarn
    1x Strip Mine
    2x Tropical Island
    3x Underground Sea
    1x Volcanic Island
    3x Wasteland

    Artifact (7)
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Null Rod

    Planeswalker (3)
    2x Dack Fayden
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    Sideboard (15)
    1x Ancient Grudge
    1x Ceremonious Rejection
    1x Energy Flux
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    1x Illness in the Ranks
    1x Nature's Claim
    1x Nihil Spellbomb
    1x Pyroblast
    1x Red Elemental Blast
    1x Steel Sabotage
    2x Sulfur Elemental
    1x Toxic Deluge
    2x Yixlid Jailer

    EE6 - Super quick report
    1: URw Pyromancer: 2-0 Took my time, let his probes and draw spells resolve while building my hand, killed and countered his threats eventually winning with TNN and Jace.

    2: Pitch Dredge: 0-2 Knew what he was on from seeing it R1. G1 mull to 6 on the draw keeping wasteland, deathrite, mox emerald, Force, Snapcaster, delta. Draw snap #2 for first draw. Waste bazaar, play mox into deathrite, he missteps, I force, he mindbreak traps. He has a second bazaar on T2, I never recover, GG. G2 was longer but he is again able to counter enough of my hate that each turn he pulls a little further ahead.

    3: UB Tinker Control: 2-1 Beat blightsteel in G1, lost to it in G2, kept him from doing anything meaningful in G3.

    4: Traditional Dredge: 2-0 T1 deathrite on the play G1 was solid and let me buy time to eventually win. Deathrite and spellbomb +T2 Leo in G2 were enough.

    5: Ballista shops (maybe car shops): 2-0 Solid matchup. Disrupted extensively game one and won. G2 he resolved T2 wurmcoil, which I grudged, T3 he resolved a second wurmcoil which I stole with Dack. He couldn't dig out from that.

    6: Car Shops: 2-1 Played my deathrite too aggressively (draining rather than gaining) and he killed me with exact damage G1 turn before TNN kills him, oops. G2 and G3 I control it pretty easily with sideboard cards and decays.

    7: 4c Gush Mentor: ID. After Roland lost in top 8 we were both waiting for other people so we played this match out. I got it 2-1 in about 80 minutes. Long intricate match with a lot of decisions. Very enjoyable match, which I would totally sit and play for a whole evening just for fun. Felt very even, lots of places either of us could give it away, but very few spots to just aggressively grab a win. My loss was again from being a bit too aggressive in the midgame and getting punished. I had to focus on dealing with treats while he had to keep me from getting ahead in little steps all game. Decay and sulfur elemental were extremely good, as one would expect. On a couple of occasions I was happy to let him gush to set him back a bit on mana and make my conditional counters and one-for-one cards better.

    For people who like Leovold control, I would recommend giving this list a try. Cheers.


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