Can the deck function without drawing Bazaar? Is a pretty big one, in my opinion. There are a lot of Dredge lists that are forced into mulligan for Bazaar for all 3 games, and that's a limitation of the deck.
2xAnimate Dead / Dance of the Dead
1xLotus (or LED)
Generate infinite mana using loop, you can cast any creatures/planeswalkers during this period as well. Next, cast Muldrothas directly using the infinite mana and you can cast any artifacts/enchantments.
I again suggest thinking of Workshops as a second view on the same phenomenon. A blue deck with zero non-Moxen artifacts is strictly worse if you add a random Workshop. Once you add the first Workshop and start adding expensive artifacts, you are pursuing a new strategy and now adding three more Workshops is optimal (with diminishing returns as you add more Workshops, with the tipping point well above the maximum allowed 4 copies). The vast majority of Vintage decks want 0 or 4 Workshops. This has nothing to do with p[n].
Agreed, there are good generic arguments that for Magic card X you should run either 0 or the maximum legal number of copies, and only if you have some special reason should you run some number in between (the most common special reason being you actually tested it and the diminishing returns make 1 or 2 or whatever the right number).
With Workshops I would guess the optimal number is somewhere in the 10-12 range, but of course there's no way to get there from first principles - in theory 3 could be the optimal number, but we all know from experience that 3 is silly and you'd prefer to have more of that particular effect. The same applies here - there's no way to get from first principles to the optimal number being 4 or greater.
Moreover, the discussion has all been in the context of a particular deck. Your 0 or 4 division is generated by having different decks with different strategies. I interpret the "0 or 4" claim as applied to a particular deck with a particular set of 71 other cards at its disposal. I agree that generally you would want 0 or 4 because either Leyline meshes well into your strategy or some other card does, and you want the better of the two. However, I don't see any reason at all why Leyline should be an exception to the same principles that frequently push people to play 1, 2, or 3 copies of a card.
@ajfirecracker Hey. I just want to thank you for this and your videos as well. You've really helped me understand Dredge a lot more deeply than I otherwise would have. I bet I'm not the only one. For what can be (I think) the most counterintuitive archetype, you do a great job of just walking through the choices logically. Great work.
@Islandswamp will do 🙂 I think @OriginalOestrus is generally on Legacy/Modern, but she did have a really good time playing Vintage so hopefully it will happen again 🙂 We wanted to play the daily but it didn't fire 😕
@Water0 it seems like we got a misunderstanding here. I thought we where talking about @spook s post:
Does not have haste - so much weaker against Dack.
to which @ajfirecracker replied that dealing 3 damage to a planeswalker on ETB still deals with the planeswalker, so having haste to kill the dack isn't necessary. I was understanding your comment on that
Deal 3.. to their planeswalker? It doesn't say player on there anywhere.
As that you misread the card and where trying to say that in fact it wouldn't handle dack. Thats why i reposted the card text. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
@ChubbyRain It was huge for a while, after Bomberman faded out - not so much, that was my point.
I played you at champs in round 8 - you were on Dragon. 😉
I also wouldn't call their dismissal foolish, there's just far superior options regardless of meta (opinion, but their lack of wide spread adoption speaks volumes).
In 2016 though, there are at least 6 hits for Salvagers on TCDecks. That's not including the Asian Championships or a 32-person event in PA in which I came in second with Kelly Oath. The lack of widespread play has much more to do IMO with other factors (difficulty of play, inability to play on MTGO, player preference, metagame considerations) than 'far superior options regardless of meta'. Obviously Nakamura and Brian Kelly, felt so...
Also, I remember you. And I don't recommend playing Dragon for 17 rounds during Eternal Weekend 😛