It was a main deck null rod build that tried to fix some of the issues that the deck had with top decking dead by removing the mana artifacts. The meta at the time was generally quite soft to the rod so having 4 main deck you could play without worry or hesitation was very strong.
@joshuabrooks I agree with you that people have to learn lessons. Maybe learning a lesson by losing $100,000 is a bit much? What bothers me most though is that the scammer would win with $100,000 in their pocket. What kind of lesson does the scammer learn? They would learn that they can get rich easily by taking advantage of people. Then other bad people will see what the scammer has done and then you have more people doing scams. And then it cascades from there, repeating this same process over and over, creating thousands of scams. Lets stop it now while we still can.
This is the argument I find most compelling.
@80percentbuffoon said in MTGO 2020:
Unfortunately this forum caters primarily to paper players so the above paper bias in the responses is expected.
Obviously obviously I have to respond to this, though I hope I don't sound bratty or defensive.
TMD does not explicitly cater to paper players in the sense that I have taken zero active steps to provide anything specifically for paper players. I genuinely have no idea what part of the site could be considered paper-centric, maybe the Tournament Announcement forum that nobody's posted in for months?
I think you'll find that paper players don't really use TMD either. There aren't many living paper communities out there any more, and there tends to be a pretty big overlap between people who don't like playing online and people who don't like internet forums, for obvious reasons. If I try to pin down what I see as "the paper community", I think of places like the New York metagame that until recently ran regular large events. Players who play at an astounding level and just have no interest in an online forum. I don't think Joe Brennan even has a TMD account. I think the majority of active TMD posters (myself included) are _ex_paper players. People who used to go to tournaments regularly and for whatever reason no longer can, who drop by now and then to brainstorm some new spoiled card just to exercise their Vintage muscles. Then we recede back into our neighborhoods where there just aren't any paper Vintage tournaments to go to anymore.
I've tried catering to paper players. I've also tried catering to MTGO players. I ask people what it would take for them to use TMD more. I ask people that a lot. I'm guessing a lot of people I know are sick of me asking them. I almost never get an answer beyond "ban ____, I don't like them" and "I don't go there because no one goes there".
The fact is, people don't want to talk about Vintage on a forum. I keep it running out of a sense of obligation, and because I can afford to, but it's just not something people are passionate about enough to contribute to.
If could think of a way to cater to paper players, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I could think of a way to cater to MTGO players, I'd do that instead.
I know this all sounds kind of defensive, and maybe it is, somewhat ... I do feel bad when people dislike the site ... but more than that, I don't think you would have said that if you didn't feel like you were somehow being excluded ... and I don't want people to feel like they're being pushed out of the site when I've been so desperately trying to make people feel like they can participate (a fact that some people have told me is the biggest problem with TMD).
I wish I could lay out some action plan I have for fixing any issues you have with the site, but I think I'm all tapped out.
Brass Man or Mr.Probasco whitch ever you prefer I want to make it very clear to you that you are doing gods work. I learned about vintage through the vintage super league and as a result have started to play. I lack the financial means to play in paper or even go to tournaments, but I have played vintage on xmage and tabletop with friends I am trying to bring into the format. I enjoy this and I would go so far as to say vintage is my favorite way to play magic. This would not have been possible without 2 things. Your website and MTGTOP8. I go there for decks and come here for understanding. I have spent hours trawling the archives and reading and just recently chose to make an account so I could participate first hand. Don’t, please don’t, believe that you are screaming into the void. The work you do matters, it may not to anyone else but it has mattered a lot to me and I want to thank you for keeping this cite open and running for as long as you have.
P.S. Mabye get aversion of dredge with less than 4 grave trolls for the front page.
It is probably better in the more human lists amusingly. The little bit of testing that I have done on it says that is is not great for white eldrazi as not being able to be cast off cavern actually stresses the deck’s mana base. Solid card overall but for eldrazi human mixes I think it may be best to stick to only two types.
My list plays 21 colorless sources(counting caverns and 4 of the moxen) so if you play less your result may be different.
I play belcher and belcher is good, fast, and post MDFCs becoming scarily consistent. Your condescension is unwarranted, inaccurate, and unneighborly.
In other news I would never have to tailor my deck to play 4-5 colors in my control build. That is why the last 5c control deck to win a tournament is so old it was still called keeper. Therefore it’s obviously a natural move in the modern meta to play so many colors... oh I just read what I typed, oops maybe not so true.
(Yes I am aware of my hypocrisy but it doesn’t make me wrong, just hypocritical. Plus it felt good and there is nothing like instant gratification.)
While in the abstract I think both of you are correct and it is almost certain that 4x is correct in the objectively best list. My local meta has shaken out in a way that I have found very unfriendly to the card. I face a very disproportionally high number of white eldrazi decks whitch both have nonartifact hate and sphere effects that turn vigor off. As for FKZ the reason these individuals like eldrazi is the next third of the meta fast combo: DPS, Doomsday, and rarely but sometimes PO. I value FKZ’s ability to declare me the victor on turn 2 or 3 instead of having to wait a turn when fighting these decks. Finally the shops. I have found shoal to be very helpful against these individuals and FOV to be quite underwhelming because with careful play they usually have a sphere before a cage/relic and if that happens while you have FOV you scoop where as shoals allow me to fight the sphere directly and then fight the cage effect. 5 shoals handles jailers and priests a lot better than FOV and I have found that to be highly relevant.
I will not claim this reasoning and my choices are correct but this is why I decided what I did and have the build I have.
I disagree that ancestral is the best card in magic. At least in the context of played games. I think the best card in magic is Bazaar of Baghdad. It is a single card that commands something on the order of half to a third of all sideboard slots in vintage. There is not other card where a reasonable if not tier (and certainly tier at points in the past) deck can mull to 3 look at their hand, see one and 2 completely random cards and say yah I am probably favored. No other card in any format I am aware of is a compulsory mull to one for and I am not aware of such a card at any point in the past either.
The fact it only does your hand completely kills the card as far as I can see. Because instead of 2 oath monsters you now run 12? So the effect is worse than oath but its also twice as expensive and keeping monarch is hardest against shops and bazaar aggro, the decks oath is supposed to be good against. There is no way it goes in anything that already exists and I very much doubt it is going to be good enough to build around. One easy way to think about this card is show and tell with more steps. No one plays show and tell so why would we play a worse version in worse colors?
If you intend this as a general statement you are correct the dogpile is unhelpful although that is because of a difference in numbers rather than a structural issue with the type of question/statement. If it is intended in reference of me personally you may want to reread my posts on this thread as your criticisms are ill fitting. I would not normally assume you were referring to me personally but you literally @ed me so I am lead to that conclusion.
Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple are bad versions of Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors. Like massively nerfed versions of those cards.
So this is a fat lie. As an eldrazi player these lands are much more powerful. They dont kill me or go away and not infrequently eye of ugin is adding 5 mana by cost reducing twice and taping with urborg. Those lands are more niche than tomb and city but in their niche they are vastly stronger. To call it a nerfed version is simply false.
Also as someone who has run into a proxy limit once or twice and brought shocks in my vintage decks it is actually not a very big difference and I was still very glad to have a fetchland mana base. Fetchlands are if anything better than duals. Duals are cool and all but a fetch is effectively a city of brass you only have to pay life to once, I am willing to bet fetches and shocks is a better mana base than duals and I guess cities of brass? Fetches matter, ever wonder why control decks are 4c these days and Keeper was 5? Because the duals did not give enough mana consistency to go past 2 colors and a splash without leaning hard into 5c lands and if you are going to play them why not commit. With the modern fetch the reliance on pain lands can be eliminated at virtually no cost to the mana base it is fundamentally transformative, if anything fetches are not good because of duals duals are good because they can be fetched.
If you don't need the cantrip to resolve because your hand is fine then you can cantrip first but if you need the cantrip you want to duress first, if they misstep the cantrip the duress will resolve and excetera. Generally, I am interested in leading on the one need to resolve less.