@Topical_Island I agree, I think that as we all talk about the B&R and generally we all want to play with the cards, we should consider how to use them and then be able to make arguments to pull cards off or not and get ideas going.

There would be some value, imo, in getting a thread about each Restricted card and building decks to prove how it's broken or not since we get new cards every 3 months that changes the context. There are likely some cards that don't need to be considered in such a way, but a main thread like this one could do that. Meanwhile, the Single Card Discussion - Unrestriction threads would be a great place to store institutional memory of why a card is busted, spring boards for decklists, and counterarguments with examples.

edit: I wish that the official banlist site included links to the banned list announcement archives that tied to each card, so there was an Archive, but each card had for instance

Gush [1] [2] [3] and each [X] is a link to an announcement about that card. It'd be good to be able to see it, but it would also be nice to see how much time has passed since a card was restricted.

@Topical_Island if I may, I think that @Brass-Man meant that Wizards paying attention to Vintage players feedback would be a negative if the feedback is "devoid of historical context" or critical thought, which would make restrictions less based on objective data and more on emotional outcry by a vocal minority.

@ajfirecracker it's not a great way to set up an experiment tbh (restricting variables is always best practice), but in your favor, new sets get dumped in every couple months that change the card pool anyways.

@SquirtMcGirt I just don't know how it isn't better than Shaman of the Pack for an elf deck, outside of the color problem which I doubt is very hard

@Teazia if you cast Misthollow Griffin from exile when it was exiled due to imprint on a mox, doesn't the mox lose the ability to be a mana source?

@Brass-Man yeah i agree with that, i was talking about how they have tournament results every day or so to draw from that can replicate the paper tournaments, so they could draw from that data. Not disagreeing with you, tangentially adding to your point

@Brass-Man also can't they use MTGO data to get a window into what the proxy tournaments are doing?

@Smmenen Mentor: not even once

@wappla it leads to an inflated banlist as well, since it's harder to release the prisoners than take them in

@Topical_Island if you roll with Thirst and Academy, would you also play the artifact lands for extra value at the sake of more fragility?