How about Eidolon of the Great Revel

@mdkubiak said in SMIP # 65: Amokhet Vintage Set Review & B&R Fallout:

The concern I have about is this restriction seems to be more about outcry of people than actual data

I completely agree, I'm concerned that when they make restrictions based on the complaints it pits the community against each other.

@diophan Thanks so much for doing this once again!

@arj

Here's the Red List, Congrats KeeperX!
https://twitter.com/johngofett/status/858501531162730496

Also I now feel obligated to yell DON'T RESTRICT MENTOR whenever its performance is mentioned. Seems this sort of behaviour is what gets results, I'm sorry it's come to this.

Thanks for putting the effort into the breakdown

@diophan

After reading plenty of mentor comments/complaints here on TMD, I feel you have given the best explanation by far. Thank you for this.

You mentioned: ‘shops has the highest winrate but a huge percentage of players refuse to play the archetype.’

This is interesting to me. I’ve only been playing Vintage since September 2015, I started with MTGO (of course). While I play Mentor & many other decks in the tournament practice room, when it comes to entering dailies or the P9 I usually go with Shops. I have access to pretty much any Vintage deck, but each time I review the numbers and play test the various matchups, I always settle on playing Shops because the numbers are there.

I’d rather play mentor gush (probably in the esper colors but I’d settle for jeskai) over feeling forced into playing shops yet again. I play shops because it’s consistantly good and when you play against it even when using jeskai mentor gush you still lose the game one mana short of being able to do something to maybe win or sometimes just anything at all.

You mentioned: Mentor is the best deck against most hypothetical decks. This pushes out a lot of those decks and makes mentor a large percentage of the metagame. Shops then plays a maindeck that crushes mentor and profits.

Would I be wrong to say that since Vintage is so polarized between blue decks and non blue decks it’s inevabitle that one blue deck will always rise to the top as the best deck to defeat the other blue as well as have a chance against the rest of the field?

I’m interested in hearing about what those hypothetical blue deckswould look like. To me the blue decks of Vintage aren’t very diverse, they all have a similar shell. In a format that hardly sees any new playable cards, I’m really suprised to hear players say mentor is a problem. To me mentor is just the new driver of the same old blue Vintage deck. It appears to me that banning or restricting mentor would only cause the format to take a stale and boring step backwards.

Thanks again for the insightful reply.

Thanks for providing this information, pretty cool to see such a huge breakdown. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into results like these.

Why does everyone say Mentor is the best deck when shops and taxing effects have percents like these?

@Brass-Man

I was previously calm and only now I'm upset! I felt the format was doing fine, and these restrictions are unnecessary. I see no need to weaken mentor decks when shops is just as powerful or even more powerful than mentor. I don't believe Sphere effects needed help, and I don't believe these restrictions will "Open up the metagame".

@ChubbyRain Thanks that's great!

Will there be a tournament report?

@iamfishman Although I understand the reason for the problem, the audio is pretty bad. :-/