"One key to the continued health of Magic is diversity. It is vitally important to ensure that there are multiple competitive decks for the tournament player to choose from."
@vaughnbros yeah I have at several points ignored this section only to come back. Most of the time, it’s because i’ve actually tested the card in question and wanted to share my experience while asking others if they’ve had similar results. I get few responses if any. Ironically, people are most opinionated when there is the least amount of data available.
The low quality of card evaluation threads has caused many people to ignore them. I don’t think even Brassman follows these. Forgive me for trying to change what I consider a contributor. I’ll just join the others and ignore the SCD.
More broadly, I think this is good against big blue decks that players like you gravitate towards.
I just saw this and honestly started laughing. I gravitate to literally anything that is not a tier 1 which has honestly included hatebears at various junctions, and decks that would play this card.
Perhaps I need to get better at self promotion? You gave credit to Ryan for Karndrazi after all... Well, just so you know, the new Shops Fastbond list originated on my stream, including the buried ruin interaction. Zias and Mike Noble deserve a ton of credit for the work they put into the deck, but I feel I have to defend my reputation lest I be thought to “gravitate” to a specific archetype.
@vaughnbros Thank you for making my point. Comparisons are useful within a narrow context such as talking about cards in a 75 or when evaluating functionally equivalent cards. Yet people expand this and ignore context because they think comparisons are “incredibly important ” or something. It causes threads to become more about the card being compared to the spoiled card than the spoiled card itself.
Yeah, I hate comparisons in card evaluations. For the record, I was comparing the reactions. Look at how similar...
- Comparisons to Cage
- Would have kept Karn from being restricted (compared to Misstep and Workshop). Did someone mention Forge too?
Edit: My intent isn't to make this into a thread about SMIP. Like most people in the Vintage community, I am looking forward to the content.
My view on Deafening Silence is that it is a role-player. It is limited in its application due to its two sideness against many decks and it's lack of impact as a draw. It's not a hatebear and that reduces the threat potential of the decks that would run it. What makes Thalia, Lavinia, Narset, Teferi, and similar cards great is they aren't just the hate effect. I think this card is a perfectly reasonable anti-storm card. I think people are going to try it in more matchups and will be disappointed. That might not be reflected in top 8's but we'll see in the long term viability of the card (similar to Damping Sphere).
Of course not. I only paid attention to the numbers when they were 0 and it was a card I thought should see play. The actual non-zero numbers have no actual meaning to the typical listener, but I didn't criticize them because it was your show and I was grateful for the content. I assumed it was some game you and Kevin played for entertainment purposes. If you want to take it seriously, I recommend dividing the number of "appearances (number of copies or simply being in a deck?)" by the number of events. And it still tells you nothing about what a card is doing, because if I remember correctly, you are basically talking about a fringe playable card in Brian Kelly's Oath deck. A literal one of in the SB. The lowest possible impact imaginable. It passed the "Brian Kelly will play this card" test.
Believe it or not, this wasn't about you being right but I have been comparing this card to Damping Sphere since it was first printed and people were complaining about it for some time. There is a pervasive belief that hate cards such as this are anti-Vintage and going to have a profound or event warping effect on the format. It overestimates the effect on those cards - Damping Sphere is a key example:
This card, in theory, should stop all the whining about our favorite repeatable lotus land and its call for restriction. . . But it won’t. Mark my words. facepalm.
I love this card so much. This is the most potent hate card we've seen since Grafdiggers' Cage! I don't know that it stops Shops in Vintage exactly, since mana rocks can pretty much cover the spread after turn 2, but it seems absolutely brutal, BRUTAL in Legacy.
I suspect this is going to rock the sideboards forever now.
If this card sees any decent amount of play, it will certainly undermine the case for restricting Mental Misstep
It can't be Misstepped, and makes Misstep wars much more difficult to sustain.
It's clear that this card has lots of Vintage potential, given that it directly affects the three most prevalent strategic approaches in the format, Shops, PO, and Xerox decks, which are spell dense.
But, I'm also not particularly thrilled with cards designed in this manner. Like Grafdigger's Cage, I feel that cards of this type or class may inadvertently have too much influence on the format, and tend to bend the format away from powerful strategies and tactics that make Vintage appealing and fun. Making Vintage "fair" does not necessarily make it better.
Damping Sphere may well live up to it's name, and be a big party pooper.
Replaying to this above
Well said, pretty much sums up my fears about this card. I have the same opinion regarding Grafdigger's Cage. It was ultimately too successful in influencing Vintage and changed it irrevocably.
I don't want to attach names, because it's not about putting players on blast. My point is that I've seen this before and I don't think it's very different. The card is better than Damping Sphere was but has narrow applications and it best used in the SB where you have more control over the matchups and situations in which it can be good. And unlike Collector Ouphe, this card exerts absolutely no pressure on the opponent. I checked MTGGoldfish and both Null Rod and Stony Silence have not cracked the top 50 spells. Ouphe is hanging out at #11 with the Dredge creatures. The pressure is a huge component especially as a top deck and late in the game.
And if anyone was curious, the Damping Sphere thread also had Storm talking about his Knight of the Reliquary Humans deck.
Some things change, others stay the same.
War Priest of Thrune, Reclamation Sage, Lavinia and then a removal spell. This card is very fair and answerable. Not even that good outside of hatebears since casting noncreatures opens you to removal. Seriously, a SB card for certain decks but TMD loses their mind over hate cards. I still remember the complaining about Cindervines being asymmetrical. It should have been attached to a planeswalker that drew 3 cards and shut off artifacts while also being blue...