Understood, and I do agree with Jace over Tezzeret here. Incidentally, any way a homeboy can get a "like" on a post (or three) just to get posting privileges here? I just joined TMD recently, but I did personally SCHOOL David Williams on how to play competitively back in the day... (That might piss him off, but Mr. Williams knows it's true). Funny to name-drop him, as in 1994 it was only rather more important that I annihilated George Baxter. No one remembers that dude. Or any of the other "OGs."

It's the sheer expense. I'd be more of a Vintage "activist" than a mere "spectator" if my epic collection (including a ton of "Edgar") wasn't stolen back in the mid-90s. Sorry, but I haven't had the $250k to replace that ridiculous collection and play real Vintage again, and unfortunately no one helped me find the dude who stole it all. His name is Kenny and he owned a card store in Kingwood, TX in the 90s. Oddly enough no one had any information on his whereabouts when he took off with my cards, although all the locals seemed to suddenly have more Beta cards than before when I started asking around. I was quite vocal online about this for years and even hired a PI at one point who never found him. No one in the MTG community lifted a finger to help track this guy down, although admittedly not too many of us were online back in those days. As someone who started playing and seriously collecting in 1993, now I can only afford to reminisce about Vintage. I expect there are plenty others whose collections were stolen once the game started taking off in terms of card valuation. Still, I'm very appreciative of TMD even if I can no longer partake in Vintage play myself anymore.

I did the Lich Mirror Universe thing way back when, as I'm sure others did here, but my favorite tournament first-turn kill was dropping four Black Vises and casting Ancestral on my opponent. That was obviously the perfect draw, and it had never before occurred to me that I should ever use Ancestral on an opponent before I drew it and actually examined my hand. (This was all clearly well before Force of Will and the subsequent restrictions/errata).

If you spot a belly button in your opponent's pieces there's a good chance he's playing counterfeits. Just a heads up...

Yeah, Null Rod is quite the spoiler as I'm fully aware. Still possible to "store" Vault/Key in your deck if/when it makes sense to pull the trigger, which incidentally wins you the game and only costs you two cards in your deck construction. More to the point, though, thanks so much for the post. It's totally my kind of deck, man.

Fortunate enough to have started MTG during Beta, but then unfortunate in terms of having my ridiculously valuable collection stolen a few years later. It was definitely a different game back then. I remember everyone's excitement when Colossus of Sardia came out because 9/9 was suddenly the new 8/8. I also remember the release of Antiquities especially because I traded for all my friends' Moxen and Lotuses to create an Atog deck with all artifact mana. I think at one point I had 30 Moxes and 5 Lotuses. Again, quite a ridiculous collection. Of course, most of us were also playing "house rules" back then, and commonly this included drawing two cards per turn and playing as many lands as you like per turn. This obviously devalued things like Moxen, Lotus, Ancestral, and Library in our circle, so I'd pick up a couple Moxen on trades for something silly like a Lord of the Pit. Ah, the good old days.

I've yet to play my Elesh Norn in Vintage, but I've certainly been meaning to. Plan on play-testing this soon. Thanks!

Yeah, Null Rod is the issue. I still love it as a general fan of affinity decks. I'm particularly interested in trying to work U/W Fabricate into a Thirst for Knowledge-based artifact/discard deck. Hey, by the way kids. I'm brand new here on TMD, although an MTG veteran since 1993. How can one create his/her own thread here?

Ah, I see now that you're scrapping Tezzeret altogether. It's not nearly so potent whereas before you seemed to be seeking validation for playing him. That was purely the "bait" for my rather obvious Vault/Key advice.

I feel the exact way about Hymn that I do about Power Sink. Used to both be ubiquitous in Vintage and somehow vanished. Personally, I still play both cards frequently, but then I'm hardly a ranked bad-ass these days. It's more for nostalgia, and honestly Hymn is probably underrated in the Vintage metagame. It still holds up in my personal play-testing anyway,,,

If you spot a belly button in your opponent's pieces there's a good chance he's playing counterfeits. Just a heads up...

@Chronatog That's what I'm talking about! Cheers!

I'd pick up a set at least for a fun extra-turn build. Doubtful it's competitive, though, especially with Chalice restricted. On the plus side, he's a human...

Party People,

This is all "just for fun," but then given the often vitriolic postings here (quite unfortunate and laborious to sift through, btw), why not add a bit of levity?

I'm curious with this wealth of Vintage expertise on TMD to see what cards you all might design/propose specifically with an aim towards opening up the metagame. My sense is that virtually everyone here is at least somewhat disappointed with the Mentor vs. Ravager Shops dominance, and much has been opined in terms of recent and future restrictions. I also know that most of us would favor new printings over restrictions/bannings in terms of regulating said metagame. Not that it probably "matters" in the grand scheme, but to at least inject a fun exercise here I wanted to ask what card/cards might you propose to diversify the format? You can consider the effects on Standard, Modern, etc. OR NOT, but what dynamic(s) would you find helpful in cultivating realistically competitive decks outside the more popular motifs? I'll throw out a couple of silly suggestions just to get the ball rolling:

Land
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. This mana may only be used to cast enchantment spells, and any spell cast with mana from this land cannot be countered.

Creature - Merfolk UU 2/1
While ___ is in play each opponent cannot cast more than one spell each turn.

As MTG experts I would assume there are some extremely creative minds on this site. What strategies/themes intrigue you, and specifically what new card designs might you propose to make them more viable in Vintage? Green Stompy? Infect? Merfolk? Elves? Death & Taxes? Mill? Infinite Turns? Land Destruction? Landstill? Etc.?

Land destruction used to be a dominant deck in the format circa 1994. I understand it's not the most fun thing to play against, but neither is it a first-turn kill strategy or impossible to defeat. Also, you can say that about virtually any dominant deck, and I do believe the point of this entire post is that stagnation itself in the format is a severe detriment to everyone's enjoyment level. If we're looking for a viable 3rd deck to shake things up more generally I actually do see some merit in unrestricting Strip Mine. Admittedly I haven't actively played competitive "Type 1" since 1995 so my feedback might be a little stranger than most people's here. That stated, and even with the newer printings allowing for infinite land recursion, I still don't see how this would necessarily be more powerful than TX Mentor or Shops. It might just necessitate the inclusion of newer L/D hate strategies in maindecks, so at least we have some variation there.

Fortunate enough to have started MTG during Beta, but then unfortunate in terms of having my ridiculously valuable collection stolen a few years later. It was definitely a different game back then. I remember everyone's excitement when Colossus of Sardia came out because 9/9 was suddenly the new 8/8. I also remember the release of Antiquities especially because I traded for all my friends' Moxen and Lotuses to create an Atog deck with all artifact mana. I think at one point I had 30 Moxes and 5 Lotuses. Again, quite a ridiculous collection. Of course, most of us were also playing "house rules" back then, and commonly this included drawing two cards per turn and playing as many lands as you like per turn. This obviously devalued things like Moxen, Lotus, Ancestral, and Library in our circle, so I'd pick up a couple Moxen on trades for something silly like a Lord of the Pit. Ah, the good old days.

@POXEVERYTURN
If I remember correctly that's Richard Garfield's favorite card as well. Not that it should really make a difference, but I do also happen to agree with you.

I also know there has been some debate here recently insofar as speed vs. diversity, and I for one have no problem with adding a modicum of speed to encourage said diversity. I've been on both sides of a first-turn kill plenty of times, but that's just POWER VINTAGE to me and I love it. I expect I'm entirely on the fringe of this community here in many respects, but I'd advocate unrestricting/unbanning cards like Strip Mine and Chaos Orb (truly the most powerful card ever) to really shake things up in the format. In any event, I surely always enjoy TMD for these discussions.

@desolutionist
I completely agree with you and just wanted to reiterate that I no longer play MTG "competitively." It's just a nostalgia thing along with a pondering of why some of these former Vintage staples have become obsolete. Cheers.

So I was fortunate enough to purchase about 2 1/2 boxes worth of what are now commonly referred to as "Edgar" booster packs in 1994. I actually ran an auction for many of those cards on a primitive Geocities website the following year (much to my regret). At the time it seemed prudent, and of course I recall the joy I felt at yielding $40 for an Underground Sea or the $120 I received for one of my blue Hurricanes, but hot damn have the values skyrocketed since then. Douglas Schuler reached out to me back then for my "Edgar" Serra Angel, but I for some reason kept that one (until it was stolen along with my entire collection in 1997). I'm just curious if any of you ran into that misprint set as well. I purchased them in Kingwood, TX (a suburb of Houston), and the "legend" of that set and its accidental limited release still fascinates me. Perhaps it isn't altogether pertinent to Vintage strategy per se, but I do wonder as to where else these cards might have cropped up across the country.