@evouga said in [M19] Tezzeret, Artifice Master:

I'm extremely hard-pressed to think of any situation where I'd rather draw two cards than win the game.

You might be in the minority of Vintage players.

Restricting Mishra's Workshop puts the current artifact decks in the realm of Goblins and Enchantress. The only reason one would argue for this restriction is if they want to nuke the archetype from orbit.

If the decks are making up this portion of the metagame, where are the delvers? Or ancient grudges? Where the hell did Dack Fayden go? Letting shops win events because it is disrespected is not a problem inherent to the format, but the players.

@pugsuperstar said in First league 5-0 lists:

It is automated, not done by a human.

To be fair, interns aren't real people.

Chalice isn't around anymore to derp you out of your moxen. Lodestone Golem has retired from the days of bashing your face in before you can play some land. Want to beat shops? Add more mana to your deck and start cutting some of the dead maindeck cards. Oh, and this same thing will help your Eldrazi matchup, too.

You can't be first in the blue mage arms race and expect to have a good matchup against decks built to punish your greed.

@13nova said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

Workshop win percentage against the field? ~60%

Yup. "Healthy"

Mentor had essentially the same win percentage. Paradox had an even greater one.

@13nova said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

Workshop percentage in top 8: 50%
Workshop percentage in top 4: 75%

Oh that is troubling. I wonder what won it? Hey look, a deck running 27 mana sources and ZERO dead maindeck cards against Shops.

@bobbyvictory Thorn of Amethyst and Monastery Mentor were restricted less than two months ago. Blue decks haven't even had a chance to get their feet under them yet, and, as @JACO has pointed out, were grossly misbuilt for this Champs. Vintage is a format about slow changes and I know there is a large segment of the population that is sick of huge changes looming.

Not every metagame problem should be solved with a restriction. Perhaps people simply need more time to figure out how to beat the robot menace, like has happened for years.

Someone mentioned that part of being a community is hearing things you don't like. I tend to agree.

I'd imagine severe issues are within the realm of moderation.

RIP shop prison forever.

@qq said in North American Eternal Weekend 2017 Metagame Breakdown:

Shops simply has the best set of cards among the different archetypes trying to play standard Magic.

Have ... have you seen the restricted list? The best cards on there are blue and they're in all blue decks. Shops having the best unrestricted card is an arguable point. Perhaps even Shops having the best unrestricted cards, multiple, could be argued. There's no reason for hyperbole, though.

I think @Oestrus has an amazing point and I would hate to see it dismissed for silly reasons. Dredge and Shops have both been the traditional Vintage fun police, they both have traditionally been "run enough/draw enough sideboard cards and you win" matchups, and both have been proven to have staying power. Why is there such a disparity in attitude between them?

I wonder how much of the "blowout effect" @POXEVERYTURN mentions factors into this. Do blue players not understand the shops matchup? Are they overestimating their preparedness for it due to winning long, grindy, unfavored matches against mediocre opponents? Or is the deck really the purported steamroller everyone is posting about? I am not sure, but it seemed like most of my blue opponents at champs were woefully unprepared. It went as far as one opponent showing me his sideboarding plan and telling me point blank "I netdecked this list and have no idea how it's supposed to beat you with all of these dead cards".

You can't currently build a deck that beats more than 3/4 of the top decks. This is healthy and normal.

This printing brings me great sadness.

@protoaddict @Mike-Noble And somehow this tier 0 deck became incapable of winning anything. Now remove those cards and keep the reasons the deck was doing badly. I hope to be wrong but I do not expect good things for the robots.

@Aelien I definitely agree with this. Lists will be time warped back six months, -2 worst cards +1 KGC +1 Forge. We will see how that gets treated in this new era of Vigors and Oofs.

Shops pillar taking one in the nuggets. If PO comes back, doubly so as now it has no defenses against it.

Pessimistically, I am foreseeing the Shops pillar fall into tier 2 for the first time in a long time. I am hoping to be wrong but I am honestly expecting this to be a great time for blue (and green) mages.

Looking forward to slotting this into my Karn deck. Now my robots can have Shadow as well as Vigilance.

This is an interesting tool for the kit. Probably not worth running until some shop deck starts running the Depths package again.

@vaughnbros Vigor can break openers and this card does not. Instead, it completely dominates the mid/late game at little opportunity cost compared to filling your deck with green spells. I personally am much more afraid of the latter, especially considering its synergy in Oath and Dredge decks.

@fsecco I agree, this card seems like a Big Deal. Far more concerning as a shops pilot than [[Force of Vigor]].

This is a ridiculous ability on a body that has upside when it gets removed (and it will). Unfortunately, it's too slow against PO which may be enough of a hurdle to prevent much testing.

On the other hand, builds are currently going through a massive metamorphosis thanks to the new Karn so a few copies may slip into lists.

RIP shop prison forever.

@fsecco Yep, it's not great, but it's an option. If you're building a Shop deck that hates null effects, this seems better than praying you can build up 7 non-artifact mana for [[Meteor Golem]] or [[Spine of Ish Sah]] even if you have to dodge [[Wasteland]].