After considering Force of Vigor in Vintage Pitch Dredge decks, I have made the following findings in adding Force of Vigor to the sideboard and to the main deck of Pitch Dredge.

Adding Force of Vigor to Pitch Dredge will have to include additional green cards to exile to Force of Vigor in order to cast it.

I have found that most Pitch Dredge decks use a creature to give your other creatures haste such as Flame-kin Zealot and Dragonlord Kolaghan. While both are effective they are neither blue nor green that can be exiled to Force of Will or Force of Vigor. I believe Maelstrom Wanderer is a good alternative to be added to Pitch Dredge that is both blue, green and can be exiled to cast Force of Will and Force of Vigor and should be added as the “Haste” creature.

Force of Vigor in the sideboard:

I would like to recomend three different sideboard options that can utilize Force of Vigor. These recommendations assume that there are four Golgari Grave-Trolls and a Maelstrom Wanderer in the main deck.

Sideboard option one:

4x Force of Vigor
4x Noxious Revival
3x Shambling Shell

Shambling Shell can be take the place of Golgari Thug and can be exiled to Force of Vigor. The ability to be Dredged to your hand after being discarded or dredged from you library makes it an excellent candidate for the sideboard. Shambling Shell is also a green card that can be added to the deck without causing much disruption to the natural workings of Dredge decks.

I find that adding four Noxious Revival would be good candidates for being cards that you can exile to Force of Vigor. Noxious Revival is a good utility cards in Pitch Dredge decks allowing you to recover a Bazaar of Baghdad and getting a second Bazaar from your graveyard. Noxious Revival is also good at getting utility cards from your graveyard such as Force of Will, Force of Vigor or getting a Hollow One into your hand. Other applications include putting a card onto of your opponent’s deck that they may not want, saving a Bridge from Below from being exiled and putting a Narcomoeba on top of your library.

Sideboard option two:

4x Force of Vigor
4x Basking Rootwalla
3x Vengevine

Sometimes there is an opportunity to sideboard cards in that make your deck more aggressive rather than to come up with answers to hate cards. Survival decks have been popular for playing Hollow One, Basking Rootwalla and Vengevine with Bazaar of Baghdad. Hollow One and Bazaar of Baghdad are already in the main deck and Basking Rootwalla and Vengevine are both green cards that can work well in Pitch Dredge when combined with Bazaar of Baghdad and Hollow One. In my play testing I do find that getting the appropriate combinations of cards into your hand is inconsistent. But there are a limited number of green cards that work well in Pitch Dredge and this may be a good option.

Sideboard option three:

4x Force of Vigor
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
2x Nature’s Claim

This option allows there to be six cards that can destroy artifacts and enchantments that work well in combination with each other. Elvish Spirit Guide and Nature’s Claim can be exiled to Force of Vigor. Elvish Spirit Guide can be used to cast Nature’s Claim as well as be able to pay for taxing sphere effects when casting spells. Casting Force of Vigor may be consistent with this option, getting one of the four copies of Elvish Spirit Guide to cast Nature’s Claim is even more consistent alongside with Force of Vigor. This is the best option when working against Leyline of the Void since it has an option of casting Nature’s Claim and not relied of anything from the graveyard.

When sideboarded into the main deck, all three options provide a total of sixteen green cards to be utilized with Force of Vigor. Golgari Grave- Troll has an increase chance of getting into your hand since it can be dredged back into your hand. I prefer option one the best when it comes to being the overall most effective.
Force of Vigor in the main deck:

With the London Mulligan taking into effect soon, Pitch Dredge may not rely on Serum Powder as much and there may be decks that do not include Serum Powder. Having the extra four spaces in Pitch Dredge may enable enough room to include Force of Vigor and counter magic as well as being well balanced and effective. The inclusion of Force of Vigor in a Pitch Dredge deck without Serum Powder is demonstrated in the following deck.

4x Bazaar of Baghdad
4x Bridge from Below
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Hollow One
2x Ichorid
2x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Narcomoeba
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
3x Force of Negation
1x Maelstrom Wanderer
4x Force of Vigor
4x Noxious Revival
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Shambling Shell

There are twenty blue cards and sixteen green cards in the deck, this should be enough cards to support the pitch cards that are in the deck while being balanced and effective. This is of course if Pitch Dredge can still be played without Serum Powders when the London Mulligan takes effect.

Notable creatures to put in Pitch Dredge to help support Force cards are Domia, Sage of Stone, Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Prophet of Kruphix and Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis.

I would like to thank Dr. Rich Shay for recommending to use Shambling Shell as a possible card to pitch to Force of Vigor.

Thank you Joe Dyer for interesting views on cards being banned in the vintage format.

Another aspect that cards will eventually be banned in vintage is a combination of time and the willingness to keep the game of Magic interesting. The goal of Wizards of the Coast is to keep the game going and to sell cards, these two objectives go hand in hand because selling cards generates profits to keep the game going. To keep the game interesting, new and often powerful cards are often printed every year. Lets take into consideration of what happened in 2017. Monastery Mentor made up a large percentage of the decks being played in Vintage, was then restricted and then the number of Monastery decks went down but Monastery Mentor is still one of the primary win conditions in Paradoxical Outcome decks even though being restricted. People play Time Vault and one copy of Manifold Key in their decks as win conditions as do people play Tinker and one copy of Blightsteel Colossus as win conditions; restricting Manifold Key and Blightsteel Colossus would have no effect. Now take into consideration Demonic Consultation and the new Thassa's Oracle, both win the game in combination with each other with Demonic Consultation already being restricted and only needing one Thassa's Oracle to win the game with; restricting Thassa's Oracle would do pretty much nothing. All three examples are a different way of winning the game and require different hate strategies to counter. It appears to me that Vintage in going to be dominated by one type of deck in the future where restrictions will do nothing. All you need is two of a variety of different combinations of cards to win the game. With the availability of tutors, draw spells, Serum Powder and the mulligan getting one of these three card combos into your hand is very likely along with ways to protect them, have disruption and being able to combo within the first couple of turns; and in such a deck a single Monastery Mentor will also work well. I am not sure if such a deck exists today and I also think that I am missing some combinations of cards that work well with both of them being restricted. I am however certain that as the game of Magic progresses there will be more synergies and combos made and that such a deck will dominate the format; where restricting cards will do no good and Wizards will be forced to ban cards to balance the format.

Adding Saheeli, Sublime Artificer to "The Riddler"

I believe "The Riddler" can benefit from adding one to two copies of Seheeli, Sublime Artificer for the following reasons:

1. After playing the deck, I found that the deck did not have a sufficient amount of creatures required to win the game in the vintage format when paired up with other agro decks. I looked at similar decks that do well with casting numerous spells in a turn and I found that Monastery Mentor worked well with Paradoxical Outcome decks as a win condition of overwhelming an opponent with Monk tokens. Though having Monastery Mentor in this deck would look good, I feel that the deck would not consistently produce enough white mana needed to cast Mentor even if additional white sources were added. Also splashing in white mana for just Mentor may not be a good idea. Adding Seheeli, Sublime Artificer to the deck would not take any alterations of mana sources. After testing this deck with Seheeli in it, I found that I had generated sufficient Servo tokens to win games against agro-heavy vintage decks.

2. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer's activated ability in combination with Time Vault is of great advantage. You can turn another artifact you control into an untapped copy of Time Vault and gain an extra turn with it. You can do this twice with a new Saheeli and you can even gain more than two additional turns by bouncing Saheeli with Paradoxical Outcome and replaying her. A couple of extra turns should be enough to win the game with this deck.

3. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer's activated and triggered ability in combination with Bolas's Citadel is an alternative win condition. Saheeli can generate a large amount of Servo tokens in this deck that can be sacrificed to Bolas's Citadel to make the opponent loose ten life. To make the opponent loose an additional ten life to win the game, use Saheeli's activated ability to copy Bolas's Citadel and use it's activated ability. There usually is enough leftover Servo tokens and other permanents available to sacrifice to the Citadel copy.

4. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer can be exiled to Force of will if you choose to do so.

5. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer can also be used to copy Hollow One on something like a Mox if needed or copy Blightsteel Colossus.

I believe that only one or two copies of Saheeli are needed since the deck has a massive amount of card draw.

Any feedback is welcome.

@joshuabrooks said in Jeweled Lotus on Ebay for $100,000 and $88,000. Please spread this as a scam before someone gets hurt.:

I hate to say it, but I kind of feel like if you are spending $100,000 on something without even the most basic understanding of it.....well you kinda deserve it.

@joshuabrooks I agree with you that people have to learn lessons. Maybe learning a lesson by losing $100,000 is a bit much? What bothers me most though is that the scammer would win with $100,000 in their pocket. What kind of lesson does the scammer learn? They would learn that they can get rich easily by taking advantage of people. Then other bad people will see what the scammer has done and then you have more people doing scams. And then it cascades from there, repeating this same process over and over, creating thousands of scams. Lets stop it now while we still can.

Update: Ebay vendor "dozal" is now listed five Jeweled Lotus' at an outrageous price linked below:

$100,000 $90,000 $88,000 $88,000 $88,000

Karn Shops is one of the top performing decks in the Vintage format but is often defenceless. In the N.Y.S.E. Open VI there were five Karn Shops decks in the top nine that seemed to rely on just 3-4 coppies of Defense Grid in the deck for protection. I propose that adding copies of Hope of Ghirapur would improve upon an already powerful Karn Shops.

I do say that Defense Grid is better to defend Karn Shops is than Hope of Ghirapur. My argument is that four Defense Grid is not enough to defend Karn Shops with and that multiple Hope of Ghirapur would help.
Hope of Ghirapur denies your opponent from casting non-creature spells on the second phase of a turn. Often is that all you need to win the game is to have a Karn, the Great Creator or Mystic Forge on the battlefield and Hope of Ghirapur can deny the opponent from using counter magic or other interaction that would stop a Karn or Mystic Forge.

Hope of Ghirapur is cheap to cast and is free with Foundry Inspector.

Manifold Key’s secondary ability can be useful to make Hope of Ghirapur unblockable if your opponent has a flyer to block with.

Hope of Ghirapur can make Karn Shops faster by slowing the opponent. It can take away half of an opponent’s turn by denying them the ability to cast sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers, and non-creature artifacts for a turn. This is very helpful in slowing down fast combo decks such as Paradoxical Outcome, Dark Petition Storm and Karn Shops mirror-match.

Because Mystic Forge lets you draw many cards per turn, you can cast multiple Hope of Ghirapur turn after turn, preventing your opponent from counter your spells and casting non-creature spells during their turn for multiple turns. This could give you enough turns to assemble a Time Vault/Key or Karn/Mycosynth Lattice combination and lock your opponent out for the rest of the game.

Let’s take a look at the final match between Joe Brennen and Vasu Balakrishnan in the N.Y.S.E. Open VI. Vasu was playing Karn Shops combo with Mystic Forge and Joe was playing BUG Control. In game one Joe had a hand full of counterspells. If Vasu had a Hope of Ghirapur on the battlefield at the time, Joe would have been unable to cast most of his hand. In round two, Joe countered a Mystic Forge. If Hope of Ghirapur had attacked, Joe could not have played his Force of Will to counter Vasu’s Mystic Forge and Joe would have been unable to cast his Narset, Parter of Veils on his turn. The game may have turned out differently but these are just examples.

Thank you for considering using Hope of Ghirapur in Karn Shops. I look forward to seeing how Karn Shops evolves over the next couple of months and how it will perform at Eternal Weekend.

Daniel Worobec

I know this is forum is intended for Vintage, there have been some activity relating to a combo with Legacy. Just for kicks and giggles here is something I have been working on for a while in Legacy that can participate in the combo that some may find interesting if you don't mind if I share:

4x Containment Construct
2x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

The deck I have been working on for the past five years can be found at link text

@john-cox said in Jeweled Lotus on Ebay for $100,000 and $88,000. Please spread this as a scam before someone gets hurt.:

I looked at the listings. They both are worded similarly and sound humorous to me. Not like a serious listing.

I think selling Jeweled Lotus’ at this price is a joke too in a sense that it is so ridiculous it is funny but I think the seller “dozal” is serious. Here are some reasons why I think it is not a joke:

1. ebay is not a platform for telling/sharing jokes on the internet. Social media platforms are used such as Facebook, Twitter, tiktok, youtube etc. Also when people tell a joke, they want to hear/read other people’s reaction to them. I don’t know how someone gets feedback from other people about their joke on ebay.

2. The seller “dozal” is spending money to sell their items. I don’t see why someone would want to spend money to tell such a bad joke when they can do it for free.

3. The seller “dozal” is now selling four Jeweled Lotus’ at $100,000, one at $88,000, another second at $88,000 and a third at $88,000. When describing the four items they are selling, “dozal” uses three descriptions that are almost the same and one of the descriptions is used twice, word for word. I don’t see what someone would tell the same joke four times, accept for when one of my nieces/nephews were four and when they told a joke, everyone laughed. And when my niece/nephew found they had a positive reaction to their joke they would tell it again and then someone would say it is only funny once. My four year old niece/nephew would not go on telling the same joke a third and fourth time. I don’t think the seller “dozal” four and thinks it is funny telling the same joke four times.

4. The seller “dozal” is listed as a top-rated-seller, with 1959 completed transactions and a 99.7% positive feedback rating. I don’t think people would want to use their business to tell jokes when it can hurt their source of income. You know that money stuff people need to buy food and shelter for survival.

I think this is a serious situation. There are right now, at every second, millions of bad people are thinking of ways to scam decent people out of their money. It is easy money for people who do not care and laugh at people when they are taken advantage of.

@neo_altoid recommended that I move this post over here so that more people can see it.

Using Hope of Ghirapur in KarnForge

Karn Shops is one of the top performing decks in the Vintage format but is often defenceless. In the N.Y.S.E. Open VI there were five Karn Shops decks in the top nine that seemed to rely on just 3-4 coppies of Defense Grid in the deck for protection. I propose that adding copies of Hope of Ghirapur would improve upon an already powerful Karn Shops.

I do say that Defense Grid is better to defend Karn Shops is than Hope of Ghirapur. My argument is that four Defense Grid is not enough to defend Karn Shops with and that multiple Hope of Ghirapur would help.
Hope of Ghirapur denies your opponent from casting non-creature spells on the second phase of a turn. Often is that all you need to win the game is to have a Karn, the Great Creator or Mystic Forge on the battlefield and Hope of Ghirapur can deny the opponent from using counter magic or other interaction that would stop a Karn or Mystic Forge.

Hope of Ghirapur is cheap to cast and is free with Foundry Inspector.

Manifold Key’s secondary ability can be useful to make Hope of Ghirapur unblockable if your opponent has a flyer to block with.

Hope of Ghirapur can make Karn Shops faster by slowing the opponent. It can take away half of an opponent’s turn by denying them the ability to cast sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers, and non-creature artifacts for a turn. This is very helpful in slowing down fast combo decks such as Paradoxical Outcome, Dark Petition Storm and Karn Shops mirror-match.

Because Mystic Forge lets you draw many cards per turn, you can cast multiple Hope of Ghirapur turn after turn, preventing your opponent from counter your spells and casting non-creature spells during their turn for multiple turns. This could give you enough turns to assemble a Time Vault/Key or Karn/Mycosynth Lattice combination and lock your opponent out for the rest of the game.

Let’s take a look at the final match between Joe Brennen and Vasu Balakrishnan in the N.Y.S.E. Open VI. Vasu was playing Karn Shops combo with Mystic Forge and Joe was playing BUG Control. In game one Joe had a hand full of counterspells. If Vasu had a Hope of Ghirapur on the battlefield at the time, Joe would have been unable to cast most of his hand. In round two, Joe countered a Mystic Forge. If Hope of Ghirapur had attacked, Joe could not have played his Force of Will to counter Vasu’s Mystic Forge and Joe would have been unable to cast his Narset, Parter of Veils on his turn. The game may have turned out differently but these are just examples.

Thank you for considering using Hope of Ghirapur in Karn Shops. I look forward to seeing how Karn Shops evolves over the next couple of months and how it will perform at Eternal Weekend.

Daniel Worobec

I believe the card Divide by Zero has been overlooked as a playable card in Vintage.

Vintage is a format where many “win on the same turn” decks are found. Decks that are built around Storm and game winning cards such as Thassa’s Oracle and Goblin Charbelcher to win in a single turn have been some of the strongest decks in Magic’s history. Often classified as “glass cannons” where one card from the opponent’s side can stop such a deck from working is often protected with countermagic, discard, preventing the opponent from casting spells on your turn, etc. The biggest threat is often countermagic, however sometimes there is that pesky permanent on the battlefield that stops your deck from winning the game. Permanent destruction is usually used for such a card, however such cards are limited to restrictions such as being able to only used against specific permanent types. Since such “win on same turn” decks only need one turn to win the game, often one or more bounce spells are added to the main deck and perhaps more in the sideboard. Bounce spells have been used because the permanent only really needs to be temporarily removed, can be used on all non-land permanents and are usually blue, the most common color used in such decks.

Chain of Vapor is often used since it only costs one blue mana, is an instant, and can bounce any non-land permanent; however it does have a drawback of giving your opponent the option to bounce one of your permanents in return. Echoing Truth is another popular bounce spell for one colorless and one blue mana that does not have a drawback and can bounce all of the same permanent back to hand. Two mana does seem to be the acceptable amount of mana for removing a permanent from the battlefield. However adding one more colorless mana to a total of three to increase the versatility of such a bounce spell may be acceptable such as in Divide by Zero’s case.

Divide by Zero I believe is one of the most versatile utility cards in a “win on the same turn” deck. Not only does it have the capability of bouncing most permanent threats, it can also protect your own spells and can be card advantage at the same time.

The advantages for bouncing a permanent have already been discussed. Having the option for bouncing a spell to its owner’s hand can protect you in two ways, it can either bounce a spell to the opponent’s hand so you can win within a turn or it can bounce your own spell back to your own hand if it were to be targeted by counter magic, letting the countermagic fizzle and be cast again later.

Divide by Zero also has card advantage in a choice of drawing a card at the cost of discarding a card or for wishing a “Lesson” from your sideboard. Also you may want to have a card from your hand in the graveyard such as Dread Return and Divide by Zero gives you that option.
Wishing for a Lesson with the Learn ability can be very beneficial in some cases. While Lessons are usually weaker cards than Vintage staples, they can still have game altering results. The Lessons being discussed below can have multiple advantages in “win on the same turn” decks. Think of Divide by Zero as being a utility card while wishing for an additional card, kind of a two for one or one card eliminating two different threats.

While Divide by Zero can take care of one card as described above, sometimes there may be an additional threat keeping you from winning the game. There are a variety of Lessons that can be wished for in the sideboard in all ranges of colors. These Lessons may not be as playable as Vintages’ usual staples however when an opponent’s card keeps you from winning the game, any cost is acceptable.

Mercurial Transformation 1U Sorcery-Lesson
Until end of turn, target nonland permanent loses all abilities and becomes your choice of a blue from creature with base power 1/1 or a blue Octopus creature with base power and toughness 4/4.

While Mercurial Transformation does not remove a permanent from the battlefield it can neutralize the abilities for a turn to win the game. Mercurial Transformation can also be used to pitch to “Force” cards, you do not have to include an additional color in your deck to cast it and it is an acceptable two mana.

There are also a number or additional removal options:

Introduction to Annihilation 5 Sorcery-Lesson
Exile target nonland permanent. It’s controller draws a card.

Reduce to Memory 1WW Sorcery-Lesson
Exile target nonland permanent. Its controller creates a 3/2 red and white Spirit creature token.

Containment Breach 2G Sorcery-Lesson
Destroy target artifact or enchantment. It its mana value is 2 or less, create a 1/1 black and green Pest creature token with “When this creature dies, you gain 1 life.”

Start from Scratch 2R Sorcery-Lesson
Choose one – Start from Scratch deals 1 damage to any target /or Destroy target artifact.

Necrotic Fumes 1BB Sorcery-Lesson
As an additional cost to cast this spell, exile a creature you control. Exile Target creature or planeswalker.

Academic Probation can be used to protect yourself from spells like Force of Will for a turn and also has the option to have a limited neutralizing effect on a permanent for a turn.

Academic Probation 1W Sorcery-Lesson
Choose one – Choose a nonland card name. Opponents can’t cast spells with the chosen name until your next turn. /or Choose target nonland permanent. Until your next turn, its activated abilities can’t be activated.

Mascot Exhibition can be used as an alternate win condition. Since “win on the same turn” decks usually do not win with combat, having a bunch of creatures with one spell may give you another option. While the cost of seven mana is high, “win on the same turn” decks can usually generate a large amount of mana on the same turn.

Mascot Exhibition 7 Sorcery-Lesson
Create a 2/1 white and black Inkling creature token with flying, a 3/2 red and white Spirit creature token, and a 4/4 blue and red Elemental creature token.

Other Lessons include a variety of card advantage, creature generators and other cards.

Thank you and I hope you enjoyed reading,

Daniel Worobec

Let’s face it? Sanctioned Paper Vintage events require paper cards to be used and people don’t want to risk damaging their valuable cards when using them or do not want to take their graded cards out of their casings to use in a tournaments. I propose a very simple alternative that will essentially use real paper cards without actually really using them. Just use proxies for certain cards and then at the end of the match all players reveal out of their collection the real cards or when the opponent askes to see the card. Proxies have been used for many tournaments but are not normally used in sanctioned events. But what is the real difference in using a proxy of a card that you have the real one of in your pocket? None. You actually have the card all along throughout the match you just have it in your pocket instead of in your deck. This alteration follows the idea of using real cards in sanctioned events, just think of the actual cards as being in a different zone and using a token in its place. In order for this alteration to happen the following would have to happen:

-Wizards of the Coast would have to sanction this idea to be allowed in general play as well as in sanctioned tournaments.

-The proxy itself would have to follow certain rules and specifications.

-Only pre-approved cards can be allowed on an official list. Having hundreds of people getting a judge’s approval for proxied cards to be used will take up too much time and can lead to other problems.

-The pre-approved list would have to only allow cards of significant value and not be available in less expensive versions, i.e. power nine, Mishra’s Workshop, Bazaar of Baghdad, etc. because only expensive versions of them are available and not alpha dual lands because the player has an option of playing less expensive 3rd edition versions.

-If the person playing the proxy was asked to show that they had the real card available, that player would have to show that card along with as many proxies were revealed at a time. For example if a Dredge deck were to reveal four Bazaar of Baghdad proxies, then that player would have to prove that they had four real Bazaar of Baghdad on demand. However if only two Bazaar of Baghdad proxies were revealed out of the deck, then the player would only have to prove that they owned two real ones.

-If more than one copy of a card were allowed in a deck (such as four), the player may choose to mix real cards along with proxies as long as the legal limit of the card is not exceeded.

If this alteration were to be allowed, it would mean more people would want to play in paper events, which leads to more game play, which leads to a better economy for MTG and more fun for all. This could mean 100+ more registrations for the next Eternal Weekend.

Are there any results back from Eternal Weekend yet?

I could not find any event coverage.

Any top 8 lists?

@optionparalysis said in Oops! All Spells!:

@daniel-worobec said in Oops! All Spells!:

@optionparalysis It is more like having 5 Narcomoebas, though you can have more if you choose. Having at least 2 Poxwalkers allows you to chain them with as many Cabal Therapys as you like and more than one Dread Return. In my experimentation you can get away with having 3 Narcomoebas in the deck along with 2 Poxwalkers.

It sounds like Poxwalkers is less compact than the current kill. It also overemphasizes Cabal Therapy at a point in your combo turn where your combo card (Informer/Spy) should have already been fought over. You’ll have games where your mini-engine matters, but those games need to be compared to games where they didn’t AND games where they were the factor to your losses and mulligans. It’s easy to point at the positives and sweep the negative under the rug with these kinds of changes.

I do see your point of view. The alteration from medvedev's list is -1 Greif, -1 Narcomoeba, -1 Lion's Eye Diamond, +2 Poxwalkers and +1 Cabal Therapy. The Greif is better than Cabal Therapy, Narcomoeba is better than Poxwalkers and Lion's Eye Diamond can get moved to the sideboard. If you loose a war over Informer/Spy then you at least have another 7 to cast plus Goblin Charbelcher options. However my concern is the "epic battle" over the Dread Return after the use of Informer/Spy where it is either game win or loss. Cards like Flusterstorm, Force of Negation and perhaps Mindbreak Trap are left over in the opponent's had that could not have been used against a creature. Sometimes the opponent may decide to be bold and save their countermagic for Dread Return to decide the game rather than an Informer/Spy. You also can't win the game without Dread Return and Thassa's Oracle being in your graveyard. Enabling multiple Cabal Therapys can take care of these problems with only small alterations to the deck. It also gives peace of mind that you are protecting an all-in strategy and gives you confidence to try and pull it off.

@optionparalysis It is more like having 5 Narcomoebas, though you can have more if you choose. Having at least 2 Poxwalkers allows you to chain them with as many Cabal Therapys as you like and more than one Dread Return. In my experimentation you can get away with having 3 Narcomoebas in the deck along with 2 Poxwalkers.

@optionparalysis said in Oops! All Spells!:

@daniel-worobec You can accomplish what you're trying to do with a single Bridge from Below instead of multiple Poxwalkers.

I was thinking of how fragile Bridge from Below is because it can be exiled by an opponent getting a creature into their library. Also it is like a 5th Narcomoeba.

The use of “Poxwalkers” in Oops! All Spells is inspired by “Yassy?” who came in 17th place in the 2022 Asian Vintage Championships.

I would like to be considered the following decklist as either an improvement or an alteration to established Vintage Oops! All Spells.

4x Balustrade Spy
4x Undercity Informer
3x Narcomoeba
2x Poxwalkers
1x Grief
1x Thassa’s Oracle
4x Pact of Negation
4x Force of Will
4x Dark Ritual
4x Agadeem’s Awakening
4x Sea Gate Restoration
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Mental Misstep
1x Tinker
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Dread Return
4x Chrome Mox
1x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Emerald

The difference in the above list compared to other established lists such as what Medvedev usually plays is that Poxwalkers are added with an increase in Cabal Therapy. With the addition of Poxwalkers you can now chain them with a full four Cabal Therapy allowing you to rip the opponent’s hand apart in addition to being able to discard key cards in your own hand that should be in the graveyard such as Thassa’s Oracle and Dread Return. The importance of this option is that it can be used relatively all the time in some way after you mill your library, allowing to both protect the combo and discard your key cards.

Chain the Cabal Therapys and Poxwalkers in this manner:

-Post Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer with library in Graveyard
-Sacrifice Narcomoeba to Cabal Therapy #1 and trigger Poxwalkers to enter the battlefield
-Sacrifice a Poxwalkers to Cabal Therapy #2
-Sacrifice a Poxwalkers to Cabal Therapy #3 and trigger Poxwalkers to enter the battlefield
-Repeat if there is a 4th Cabal Therapy
-Dread Return Thassa’s Oracle to win the game

With the addition of Poxwalkers you can an option to exile your opponent’s permanents in addition to ripping their hand apart with Cabal Therapies. Suggested Sideboard to do so with the above decklist:

2x Poxwalkers
1x Dread Return
1x Ashen Rider
Optional 1x Cabal Therapy

Though the above sideboard option many exile multiple permanents it is worth noting that this option may not work on your opponent’s “hate” cards since it requires the same combination that Thassa’s Oracle would use to win the game. Still there may be some use for it and worth noting.

If you wanted to recur an artifact, would you rather do Mindslaver instead?

Then again you could just do Vault/Key.

@Thewhitedragon69 I agree with you color pie arguments.

I was just expressing a concern on/if there is a Jester's Cap vs. The Brain Stone issue.

In regards to The Stone Brain vs. Jester's Cap I think it is not a matter of what one is better, it is a matter of what one is wanted.

Everyone has made some very valid points on both sides in particular in different advantages.

I believe that both are good cards and have different places depending on someone's playing style and deck needs.

For example, Mishra's Workshop is overall better than Ancient Tomb in Shops. However Ancient Tomb is better in an Eldrazi deck.

Vintage is one of the most versatile formats that is in need of different cards for different reasons.

Good for sideboards, most likely in Shops. I don't really see a place for it in main deck.
Advantages:
-Wishable and recurring with Karn
-Answer to major threats: Thassa's Oracle, Bazaar before and after Wasteland, Urza's Saga, Paradoxical Outcome, Oath of Druids, etc.
-Anti-hate (i.e. Force of Vigor vs. Shops)
-When in doubt, name Force of Will
-Gives perfect information except for sideboard

Might have a place in Shops. Urza's Saga counts as an Urza's Land.