@p3temangus said in Turbo Xerox and Monastery Mentor:

@Chronatog I do not know if this data is available from wizards, but perhaps the Meta reports assembled by @diophan and @ChubbyRain have player names called out and you could try and aggregate it in that way using their data as your source.

The simple fact is that MTGO is the only place where Wizards can view results of sanctioned vintage events on a Daily and Weekly Basis. I do not think that this impact can be minimized in any way shape or form, whether you believe it to be "representative" or not. To me, the impact of non-sanctioned vintage on B&R policy has always been hazy. Wizards can't "support" Proxy vintage, so do they ignore results of non-sanctioned proxy events? The days of having to wait months to run your new deck out in a tournament are long gone. I can play 8 rounds of sanctioned FNM style Vintage over 2 days with whatever pile of crap I feel like running out. If I had the time and will power I could play 12 rounds (assuming 3 out of 5 evening daily's fire a week) in addition to 5+ rounds on any given Saturday afternoon. I do not know your history in the format, but do you know how many Months it used to take me to play that many rounds of Vintage? Months, or even a year, and that was with me making the effort to travel to Waterbury's, SCG P9's and the like, and even then all of those events were non-sanctioned 5 or 10 Proxy.

Updating my post with with something just posted in the Vintage FB Group by a Tom Ribet (not sure if hes on the drain or not to give props to!)

10 Vintage Challenges since the restriction of Gush and Probe (80 decks). Here are the results:
25% of the Top8s are made by 6 players
50% of the Top8s are made by 16 players
75% of the Top8s are made by 33 players
53 individuals made Top8
Average attendance is 50*
2403 members are following this FB page. So the people who made the last 80 top8s represent 2.2% of the Meta!
I'm one of these members who reads & thinks Vintage everyday but unfortunately I can never participate to the online challenges (due to absolute shitest timezone). I know that many others who post here regularly don't play MTGO or can't participate to the challenges either.

• I'm missing total number of players for challenges 24/06 & 22/07 (I suspect 24/06 was much less than 50 due to NYSE tourney)*

im curious as to how the 2400 ppl following the FB are active type1 players on MTGO, and thus an accurate represenation of the meta, while getting dailies to fire is an everyday slog

@Wintage i think you hit the nail on the head, in that power creep hits vintage hardest and at this point, in my opinion, there is no amount of restrictions that will mitigate this, only outright bannings or new card printings.

Perhaps an anti-metalcraft artifact like ( during each players upkeep, if they have metalcraft, that player must sacrifice artifacts until they dont)The excessive restrictions add too much chaotic variance, but what i will say, is that if mentor is banned, shops can lose its namesake to a restriction.

So then what do they do? Maybe 1 Shop - 3 Cities ? Maybe 1 shop + 2 cities and a Mana Vault or Grim Monolith? Are they legitimately going to be too hamstrung to compete, after a petal is plucked from their 'lotus' land?

I highly doubt it, but again, this seems to only be the case if mentor goes as well, because it has the same level of degeneracy but...maybe...

maybe...you kill mentor and errata Workshop to 'Legendary', similar to the time vault errata business of yesteryear.

Just some thoughts.

@fsecco so the bird would just be exile jeweled bird draw a card?

you should always be running 4 mana confluence and then some number of Cities because of tangle wire

@joshuabrooks awesome post - thank you for putting this all together and to the others that helped in the older thread.

rayne academy chancellor and spirit of the lab's baby -- definitely see this getting played

thank you again for putting this tourney on.

When i wasn't getting my reality smashed , i got to meet a ton of great & classy people, and was fortunate enough to have my deckbox turned in after round 1.

@wappla great read - thank you for writing/posting

im famdoola on there, add me if you'd like - eastcoaster as well