I don't think any of these are good enough. The blue/red one is probably the best, and even then it's arguably just worse than Izzet Charm.
This black/green would be playable if an instant, but as it is the flexibility is not worth the sorcery speed to make it better than Abrupt or Assassin's Trophy.
@chubbyrain1 I guess I expected more people commenting this, giving it more visibility. If you compare the reaction to this to the reaction to Weissman's CoP, I think it seems the Vintage community is more tolerant to this stuff than the Old School.
I agree with you on the system stuff.
Yeah, but I’m not talking about 1. I’m talking about 20 better than Lotus and don’t restrict any of them.
Am I supposed to take this seriously?
This discussion is waaaaaay off track. 20 Black Lotuses and unlimited painless Cities of Brass are not even options for the balance of the game. You guys are tripping hard, I'm out. Please don't quote or @ me anymore in this topic, thanks.
@protoaddict I was just connecting both posts I answered in my comment. Givin Triomes the Shockland treatment (making them become Boltlands) wouldn't do anything to the og duals, since they'd just be 1-of in a few decks, with the current manabases basically untouched.
Those cards are so good that in order to reduce their price you need to print strictly superior cards to make them obsolete - but that would also possibly anger people anyway.
To be fair that is not true in the long run. If they printed enough better lotuses then the current one would stop seeing play.
Hum.... no it wouldn't. We'd start cutting lands before cutting og Lotus.
Every single time a new dual land comes out, someone says "will this take pressure off the ABUR dual lands" and the answer is almost always no it will not. Half the time people are saying this about 2 color lands that have a restriction and are non fetch-able. I think the only printings that ever did that were the fetch lands but since they still required you to have some number of duals the effect was minimal.
I'll grant you that. If the Triomes didn't come into play tapped, duals would tank. Not that hard, since collectors, Old School and Commander players would still want them, but nonetheless would tank. That wouldn't happen with restricted cards though, specially stuff so over the top like Ancestral or Lotus.
God, we always go to the SAME arguments whenever a RL discussion happens. Wow.
If they made a "better than" Black Lotus (and restricted it), every deck would play with 2 Lotus. That changes NOTHING.
Come on, I can't believe we're still at this stage in the discussion.
I'd say this is just better than Notion Thief. The effect is worse, but the mana is so much easier that it makes a ton of difference. Usually just denying the draws to your opponent is already good enough. Just a note that this static is better than Narset, since it's not 1 per turn but just the draw step.