Any news on your deck list msg67183? How goes the testing?

Lavinia fits best (as in it is her natural home) in the 5C Human version that goes for control and value (Sensei Top/Dack). However this deck did not see a lot of play since I left the scene. The more aggro control Human decks have seen some play according to mtgo goldfish.

I don't think the classical aggro 5C Human decks would work very well right now. With this I am referring to the Mantis Rider lists without Force of Will.

I think the only 2 versions that can do really well is the tempo oriented list with Force of Will and Null Rod (you all know merfolk.dec and the Humans deck that became popular in modern). The problem is that the Bazaar oriented decks are more efficient in doing this. However, it also have to be noted that a Human deck with Caverns can beat any Bazaar.dec because of Lavinia (soon), Containment Priest and artifact removal. I guess this is a matter of taste. It really comes down to whether you want Cavern or Bazaar against the rest of the meta. Bazaar does get the job done faster and more brutally, but Lavinia might be powerful enough to create an argument.

Like I mentioned the TopDack (what I have been playing since 5 years) is also a strong option. This is the deck with broken plays. With the exception of some blue cards you are in fact a blue control ala grixis/mentor deck. You run full acceleration most of the time. But you run a unique 5C manabase with fetchlands to fuel Top and you benefit from Cavern to cast powerfull Human control cards like Kambal, Grand August 4, Monastery Mentor, Spellseeker, Containment Priest, Notion Thief, Snapcaster, JVP, Noble, Deathrites and so on. Usually you end up with approximately 15 creatures which you have chosen well to fit your play against the meta. Most of the times there are some non humans involved, like Shalai or Falkenrath. Shalai is a very interesting option to deny removal or an Oath activation. You can play with Tinker/TV/Key (key is good anyway because you run 2 or 3 tops) with a Blightsteel in SB. When running a Tinker I usually play Trinket Mage aswell and run 1 crypt main deck with also a Containment Priest main deck. This gives me game against Bazaar in game 1. You can also run Chalice with similar ideas. I mean, the options are endless honestly... And I believe that the biggest problem is occupying the slots with cards that have as much versatility as possible. And Lavinia is going to deliver. The slots that she will be sitting in, will be well spend.

@yakuzaxrock
That will not work.

@msg67183
Null Rod is to stop PO and some shop creatures. Breya is a 1 off with still 6 power even with null rod. You can bounce with Karakas and stern in grindy aggro mirrors. You can als bounce null rod if lethal dmg can be delivered.

Feel free to tweak and improve.

Guli

This is not the way to go. You need zero dead cards vs Shops in main deck (Lavinia can be the exception but she can still pitch to FOW and still deny moxen) while also maintaining a deck that beats PO. I have cut Thalia and Misstep from main deck. You underestimate the power of Lords. I run 4 Mayor and 4 Thalia's Luitenant. Vithian Renegades is better than vandal.

You probably want Crypt instead of Cage in SB. With the lords and a Crypt plan it will be hard for the dredge player to get rid of priest.

Look into Stern Proctor (anti tinker, tempo vs shops, tempo vs oath, out vs omni) to make Force of Will runnable. Full Meddling Mage, Full Lavinia, ...)

Reflector Mage is solid, but I eventually cut it. To be honest all I care about is to maximize chances to win versus workshop and PO in game 1.

This would be my approach.

// 5C Lord Humans

// 60 Maindeck

// 7 Artifact
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
3 Null Rod
1 Mox Jet/Lotus Petal?

// 32 Creature
1 Breya, Etherium Shaper
4 Meddling Mage
3 Stern Proctor
2 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Champion of the Parish
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Magus of the Unseen
4 Lavinia Azorious Renegade
1 Vithian Renegades

// 4 Instant
4 Force of Will

// 17 Land
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Mana Confluence
1 Karakas
4 Tundra

// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt

// 8 Creature
SB: 4 Containment Priest
SB: 3 War Priest of Thune
SB: 2 Intrepid Hero

// 3 Instant
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap

Sounds like Lavinia has potential to go into a lot of decks. And people will be testing it.

Parfait, Bant, 5C Humans, Vintage version of Modern Humans, Bomberman...

Good luck to all!

@pilsburydohboy42

To be fair, caverns is our Force of Will. It is extremely easy for a blue deck to out tempo a creature oriented deck that is not running Caverns or can put out multiple strong threats in a single turn. Force into Jace into too much tempo/value. Not to mention that nowadays 1cc removal into snapcaster for more removal is a follow up to that FoW your first spell. So without Caverns, it would be impossible to have a game with the 'slower' aggro control decks. The creature control player does not run all the broken blue card draw spells, and must gain some virtual card advantage with cards like Cavern of Souls and whatever is being cast with this Cavern of Souls.

Dredge/Survival has Bazaar to cheat free spells into play.
PO is just broken with all the artifact mana and card draw
Workshop has 9 Black Lotus now (which enables multiple threats in a single turn)
Eldrazi has the temples and tombs to cheat mana for high quality creatures (Knot, Displacer, ...)
'Hatebears' has Caverns + Mox which is not enough in most games. Lavinia is not going to change this.

The real problem for hatebears and 5c humans is the need for a card that is both good against PO and Workshop (50% of the meta right now). A Stony Silence is a good example that is good vs PO and welcome vs Shops. Need more strong cards like that to fill in the 60 (75) available slots.

Right now the reality is that we need to run Thalia and Misstep (which are completely useless against Workshop) to stay alive and then try to do good follow ups like Lavinia. And then we also need to dedicate other slots in our deck to fight Workshop decks. In classic hatebears there is no tutoring or deck manipulation. Maybe a bob or a recall... So you are left to the mercy of whatever you topdeck. To improve this deck and to make it relevant again there is need for multifunctional creatures (specifically like i said above, something good vs blue AND fast decks like Workshops / Eldrazi.

Now this is exactly why I designed 5C Humans with Top & Dack, Tutors & other draw spells. It still has the creatures but also digs for answers with leftover mana. Dack is also a powerful out vs Tinker, good vs Shop and steals mana.

Another place Lavinia can find a home is the Humans deck from modern but with power(which is basically the same deck we designed way back in the day but without power). I am playing the 8 lords (mayor & thalia's luitenant) with Force of Will and enough blue cards. Soon Lavinia can join the team and it will be a strong addition. I also use Null Rod. No Thalia or Missteps. For the moment I use Stern Proctor to gain tempo vs Workshop or Oath. It is also an out to Tinker/Omni. I also added some Magus of the unseen which is decent against Workshop and is an additional permanent that prevents TV/Key or Tinker and can disrupt stuff like Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Vault. There are not many blue vintage relevant Humans out there (need it for FOW). Meddling Mage is of course in the deck as a 4 off. So again, Lavinia is most welcome in this pile.

Guli

Reality check needed for most people here.

I run cards like Notion Thief, Misstep, Force of Will, Sensei Top, Dack, Containment Priest, Pyroblast, Mindbreak Trap, Demonic Tutor, all the power... Every game is intensive and requires high skill to pilot.

I think piloting a PO deck is easy compared to piloting a 5C Human deck.

The 'hatebear' (stupid naming btw) decks people are referring too here are no longer being used. The closest thing is eldrazi, shops, dredge and survival. In fact most PO / Blue decks can be considered 'Human' decks, because I see a lot of Snapcaster, JVP, Kambal, Pyromancer and so on...

I do not play Hatebears since forever. I play 5C Humans and I am a control player using specific creatures to counter strategies that are being used in a certain meta. There is a big difference. Maybe Noah should explain this difference, he is better in English than myself.

http://www.archive.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47609.0

Here is my article with tournament reports back in the day (from the old TMD archive).

I do not appreciate how some people are complaining about how boring new 'hatebears' prints are. Maybe go try 5C Humans and discover the possibilities. Lavinia is a pure control card for me. It is my Force of Will, Chalice of the Void, REB and probably even more .. all in 1 card. Playing this out and protecting it while further sculpting my hand and board for a decisive advantage is extremely fun.

Good Day
Guli

@hrishi
I remember all of them and will use them to pilot myself into plenty of victories. I dislike the printing of PO and restriction of Chalice, giving blue decks so much more winning chances for no reason.