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posted in Vintage Community read more

Thank you for your thoughtful evaluation, Brian. I feel like Vintage would be a better format if your suggestions were implemented.

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@mace1370 said in February 12, 2018 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

I'm not sure how much good restricting another shops piece (say Foundry Inspector, for example) will do in the long run. As others have pointed out, WotC will print more artifacts and eventually something will get printed and run as 4x in the shops deck and we will be right back to the starting point. Long term, however, what happens when this cycle repeats itself over and over again and shops is full of 1x restricted bombs like Trinisphere? Is the only endgame solution to restrict Workshops itself?

Here’s another way to look at it: how many cards had to be restricted, and will have to be restricted in the future, so that Workshop could/can remain unrestricted? How many cards could be unrestricted if they decided to restrict Workshop at the next opportunity?


@winterstar said in February 12, 2018 Banned and Restricted Announcement:

Many at this point want the deck to be weakened, but not destroyed. Especially if splash damage with other interesting Workshop decks can be avoided (two card monte, aperture science, perhaps throwbacks like Martello, terra nova).

I would like that, personally. I think the deck has a place in the metagame, but I’m tired of it being so oppressive.

I’ll grant that this is a far-fetched example, but it’s an example nonetheless: I played blue belcher at EW in 2015. One of my losses was to Shops. I was lucky enough to face it only once all day. I managed to win the first game, but I’m certain that’s because my opponent didn’t play a sphere effect in game 1 and didn’t know what I was playing until I dropped Belcher and killed him. I didn’t have a chance in games 2 and 3, because my opponent was playing at least 9 cards that all cost just 2 or 3 mana that literally spelled “game over” for me, because my deck was running 1 land—Academy.

Yes, it’s a far-fetched case, because most decks run at least a few lands, but the fact is that this particular deck is so successfully stifled by the Shops deck, unless you’re on the play and can win on turn 1. The following year, Shops’ popularity had grown to the point where I knew I was liable to face it a lot more often, and there is literally no way for a Belcher deck to beat a resolved sphere effect, so I played a deck I didn’t like as much and didn’t do as well, of course.

I would like to see the deck continue to have a role in Vintage, but it would be nice if it didn’t so easily dominate certain strategies into extinction. Its dominance is why I, personally, am not thinking a lot about Vintage lately.

posted in Single-Card Discussion read more

I'm going to try to put her into Stasis.

posted in Vintage Community read more

@Smmenen Good summary. What's your opinion on the idea of Workshop itself being restricted?

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Hi, I'm Andy. I'm from Texas, and I've been a bad Magic player for over 20 years. I recently accepted the fact that I'm not going to get to play Vintage more than a couple times a year unless I play online, and am currently trying to figure out how long it will take me to build my first Vintage deck on MTGO. I went to Eternal Weekend last year and had probably the most fun I've ever had at Magic. I'm looking forward to going back this year, hopefully a little wiser and more experienced.

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I'm Ironroot. Just started on MTGO.

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@Soly I don't get the comparison between FoW and Workshop. The comparison with Ritual is closer, but still not perfect. Workshop (and Ritual) are sources of fast mana. FoW is (far and away) the most important police card, allowing decks on the draw to not always die to a turn 1 combo. Restricting FoW would basically nerf control decks; restricting Workshop wouldn't nearly kill off Mud.