have you tried hosting
more paper vintage events
just with normal rules
have you tried hosting
more paper vintage events
just with normal rules
I like league data. Here is why:
Leagues present several decks that performed well. These decks have to be somewhat different from each other, per Wizard's reporting rules.
This tells the player: hey, here are a bunch of viable decks. Pick one and try it out. Hopefully then the player will test it out and decide for themselves whether or not to play it.
I am not a huge fan of metagame data because it seems to have led us to an inbred metagame. People saw that the same 2-3 decks had better percentages, so they kept playing those over and over.
Granted, that's just a theory. An argument against that theory is that Legacy has had leagues for a while and the MTGO Legacy metagame does not seem to be very diverse (mostly Delver and Deathrite control decks). I am not entirely sure how to bring MTGO's metagame diversity up to par with paper's. Maybe it's not possible.
look, why don't y'all come out and say it, you don't like playing against shops.
it's not completely dominant right now and it's certainly not the best deck on MTGO according to the data.
if someone knows of a deck that beats shops most of the time and is >50% against the field, give me that deck and I'll play it. with concrete stats, not BS made up numbers. obviously if you metagame to beat a certain deck you'll compromise other matchups, that's just how magic works.
Guys, I don't want to derail this thread, but chicken is flavorless garbagemeat.
You are a vegetarian, your opinion is invalid.
This tournament was a blast. Myself and Brian benefited greatly from our opponents not knowing what the flipjace was going on. I only dropped 1 game and that was from Max t1ing me with 7 mana + Tezz + Time Vault. Matchups were vs Dredge, Mentor, Thieves, and a practice match vs TKS Shops.
Shoutout to @Thiim for the original decklist. My edit from the original main deck was: -1 Urborg, +1 Ancient Tomb, -1 Hexmage, +1 Map. IMO Ancient Tomb might even be better than Workshop in this deck, as it activates everything (Map, Stage, Mirror, Fair). I can't imagine not playing 4.
My change from the sideboard was: -1 Dismember, -4 Mindbreak Trap, +2 Razormane, +3 Wurmcoil. This was specifically for the Shops mirror and Eldrazi. There is a magical Christmas land combo with Mirage Mirror and Razormane Masticore where you copy it after the upkeep trigger for an extra 3 damage shot in the draw step.
I thought of a few different names for this... Non-Blue Belcher, Land Grant Belcher, Dumb Belcher, Truant Belcher, Drop-Out Belcher, etc. but No Academy Belcher is the best descriptor, to differentiate this archetype from the Blue Belcher variants that tend to operate by tutoring up Academy and generating lots of mana via Academy. Those decks also tend to play counterspells, and these variants do not. Not all of these decks play Land Grant, and they don't all play the same colors, but none of them play Academy or a significant counter suite.
This topic is going to be a bit of an intro, discussion, and some decklists, but not a full primer. I don't have all of the information or expertise to make a full primer. I just want more people to talk about the decks and try them out.
In my mind, the quintessential deck for this is RG Belcher. Finding lists on deck aggregators for this deck is extremely difficult, and I think the reason for this is because I only know of one player who plays this deck: Nat Moes. Here is a list he posted in a 2015 article:
Since then he has splashed blue for Tinker and Twister, which I believe to be significant improvements.
The unrestriction of Yawgmoth's Bargain has turned a previously gimmicky deck, Black Belcher, into a potentially real threat. This deck gets to play the superior Dark Ritual card, but plays Tendrils over Empty, and Belcher frequently can't count to 10. Now that we get access to 4 Bargains, a more reliable game plan is to resolve Bargain, draw a bunch of cards, and Belcher the opponent or kill with Tendrils. Here is a sample deck that I have drawn up, but have not tested in a tournament:
Here I give credit to Nat Moes again, who had a black belcher list from 2010 that he and Matt Hazard updated to include 4 Bargains and then I edited slightly.
Remember when playing these decks to use your mana wisely, bait your opponent's counterspells, be brave, and most importantly, have fun. Happy trails.
Thank you. Good post.
Unfortunately I feel like the Vintage community has been defined by constant negativity this year, mostly due to arguments and activism over B&R. Complaining about MTGO and other nonsense certainly hasn't helped either.
I do hope we can come to be known by other things instead.
I have a few thoughts on this deck as I have played it in several tournaments.
First of all I am glad that you didn't include Ponder in your list, as I think that card is hot trash in this deck.
I don't think 4 Misstep is necessary, and I run an extra discard spell instead of the 4th (1 Duress).
I think 1 Jace is necessary. Without Jace, your only win condition is attacking with Griselbrand. Even if you assemble infinite turns, if they have a flying blocker with toughness > 7 (such as an Emrakul they put in to Show and Tell), you cannot win the game.
Prior to the Lodestone restriction I was playing Blazing Archon in the board instead of Elesh Norn. Archon is better against Shops. vs Shops their only out is a combination of Ravager + Triskelion. Elesh Norn is great against Dredge but they still have the out of a hardcasted Grave Troll. With Archon out their win con becomes Flayer of the Hatebound, if they run it.
Engineered Explosives is a very useful sideboard card and it gets a lot better with Mentor running around. I recommend a copy.
Enjoy some 1000% serious lists featuring spirits, heretics, dragons, and more!
My first introduction to anything bigger than kitchen table mtg was the (unsanctioned) weekly booster drafts at Fun Depot in West Palm Beach, Florida. That was my springboard in to playing for pride, prizes, and personal betterment. But you don't need a DCI number to do any of that.
as one of the grixis pyro players who beat landstill at EW, I wish I could play against it every round. it's probably the deck's matchup. (barring weird configurations like oathstill.)
BOAM! Mini 2 card muddy report!
r2 vs mono red: g1 I lose the die roll and my opening 7 is leyline, helm, painter, grindstone, workshop, ancient tomb, mox. unfortunately he has t1 blood moon and rabblemaster off of ancient tomb, ssg, black lotus and I cannot assemble anything fast enough. g2 he has the nuts off a mull to 6 with t1 null rod and a chewer for my razormane masticore. this definitely felt like my worst matchup in the room.
r3 vs shops: g1 I am on the play and mulligan to 6, keeping workshop, serum powder, 2 mox, painter, grindstone. I play out my entire hand in that order preparing for the turn 2 activation. unfortunately he has t1 revoker (his only main deck out) for the grindstone. I am unable to assemble another combo before I lose. g2 I fall to a null rod, needle, and 3 wastelands powered out by a t1 foundry inspector.
r4 vs w eldrazi: g1 I play out my entire opening 6 on turn 1: workshop, mox, lodestone golem, mox, mox, painter's servant. he only has lands that hurt him and no moxen to power out threats that can challenge LSG. g2 he has a t1 null rod and wastelands to prevent me from powering out anything meaningful.
g3 is the interesting one and deserves its own paragraph. I begin by serum powdering away 4 hands in a row - 28 cards. achievement unlocked. I powdered away 8 lands, 3 mox, lotus, sol ring, and a bunch of creatures, but notably only 4 combo pieces. The remaining 32 cards have 12 combo pieces, which seems great, but they're a bit mana light. 2 workshops, 2 tombs, 3 caverns, 3 mox, and mana crypt are the remaining mana sources (11 total). I then end up mulliganing to 4 keeping helm, helm, mana crypt, mox, scrying cavern to the top. Not ideal. Unfortunately for my opponent he kept a threat-light hand and I ended up winning off of a razormane masticore. Vintage magic, everyone.
for those keeping track at home: 0 combo kills, 2 beatdown kills. not exactly what I set out to do, but them's the breaks!
Team Serious Open - 7/22 at the NEW POP! Shop location - Sandusky, Ohio
3104 Milan Rd Sandusky, OH 44870
Entry Fee: $20.00
Registration Opens: 11 AM
Start Time: 12:00 PM
Format: Unsanctioned Vintage
Cash Prizes equal 100% of Entry Fees.
If 8-15 Players - Top 4 Playoff
If 16 to 21 players - Top 8 Playoff
Fifth - Eighth $20 (Percentages paid out after the four cash prizes.)
Notes: Team Serious is hosting this Vintage tournament in conjunction with The Pop Shop. If you need to car pool to Sandusky, please post in this thread for help. Decklists will be collected from the top 4 or 8. If you feel confident you'll make it in, write one up beforehand to save time!
Playtest cards will be permitted. There are several ways of making playtest cards:
Using Basic Land: The first and most basic is taking a basic land card and writing the details of the card on it.
Altering an existing card: PREFERRED! The second method is to use a card that shares some of the characteristics with the card that you want to make as a Playtest Card and remove any characteristics that do not match, replacing them with the correct characteristics. Methods for doing this can be found on Youtube.com.
Printed Slips: the third is to print out all 75 cards, and slip the cuts sheets of paper into each sleeve. If you do this, every card must be printed on the same type of paper and have a basic land backing.
Collector's Edition cards: CE/ICE versions of cards are allowed.
World Championship cards: blank WC cards can be used to make great proxies with your own writing or art.
See you there! BAOM!
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