Hello! I took your list, made a few changes, and then battled in my local proxy vintage series to a 3-2 finish out of 21 people this weekend. Had I been a little more on top of my game, 4-1 would have been easily achievable which would have put me in top 4 contention.
Here is what I brought:
3 Goblin Engineer
4 Goblin Welder
4 Hollow One
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Null Rod
1 Sol Ring
3 Tangle Wire
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Uba Mask
1 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 By Force
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sundering Titan
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Uba Mask
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Spine of Ish Sah
Round 1 vs Survival 0-2:
G1: my mediocre hand loses to a very high power hand.
G2: I punt and lose a very winnable game that was mine to lose.
Round 2 vs Aggro Shops 2-1:
G1: made two hollow ones t1 on the play. Didn't play another turn before opp scooped.
G2: I have a mix heavy hand that gets slown down by a quick sphere draw by my opponent. Couldn't stabilize.
G3: Null rod invalidated my opponents deck. Welder turned into royal assassin.
Round 3 vs Fastbond Combo 0-2 (no dark depths):
G1: My opponent is able to go infinite on turn 2 and killed me with sunscorched desert. None of my cards came close to mattering.
G2: I was a turn away from getting watchbane orb into play, but died to a turn 3 to combo. I felt completely helpless. Opponent had contingency for the orb. Enlightened tutor for Courser of kruphix even invalidated my null rod.
Round 4 vs PO 2-0:
G1: Played a trinisphere, opponent played some land and slow Moxen. I get a wasteland lock with crucible before eventually playing a clock.
G2: T2 sundering titan. Opponent cast mystical tutor for tinker. I follow up by casting a welder. Opponent tinkers for blight steel. I don't misclick and weld the blight steel away and win.
Round 5 vs Fastbond combo 2-1 (with dark depths):
G1: I did something I felt was impressive, but lost quickly to a Marit Lage.
G2: Strangely, I win this match with a T1 Karn, trinishphere, and a wasteland lock, getting in underneath anything my opponent wanted to do.
G3: T1 pithing needle on zuran orb defined this whole match. I fail to draw a clock for a while and the game goes long and develops. I have 2 active welders for most of this, invalidating his force of vigor. Eventually I have 2 active welders, 2 summing sick welders, and an attacking wurmcoil. My opponent is able to ignore the pithing needle by playing glacial chasm use a horizon land to start drawing his deck. This forces me to swap out and back in my pithing needle to name the horizon land. He is then able to get infinite mana and life and make a 20/20 before passing the turn. I untap and draw goblin engineer. I am able to tutor up mindslaver and then slaver my opponent. On his turn he "decides" to combo off and kill himself after I weld out my pithing needle. This happened in turn 2 of extra turns. It was epic.
Notes from the event:
- Goblin engineer over preformed. It was always great, even the time or two I didn't already have a welder in play.
- Uba mask is great at combating blue decks. Combos well with Ensnaring Bridge.
- Maindeck bridge gave me outs to silly things, even if I was lucky in that I didn't need it in my particular games.
- I want the 4th null rod in the 75.
- Acting like I was not going to have karn in play almost lost me a game when my sideboard had changed to not be karn friendly.
- I never wished my engineer was a pyroblast or Daretti.
- The deck feels like a BIG underdog against Fastbond combo.
- Deck felt great against everything else I played against.
- I was certainly medium.
- Solemn Simulacrum was medium at best the 2 times I drew it. I never wanted to tutor for it and "grinding" it for advantage was never my optimal play. Will likely put the 3rd Uba mask back into the main in its place, but one event certainly isn't the best data set.
- Never had Spine of Ish Sah in play. I only wanted it to blow up fastbond, but never got the chance. Not sure if it should stay or go. It does answer random BS and you can tutor it with engineer.
I think the deck certainly has great potential and is doing powerful things. Lots of room for optimization and improvement.
It almost auto loses to Fish however.
I honestly hadn't thought too hard about the Null Rod mirror, but could you expound on this a little? What is your game plan in those circumstances? And here are we talking Noble Hierarch/Bob kind of decks?
I am talking more specifically of Merfolk. We end up having so many blanks that the only real plan is to hide behind ensnaring bridge. The deck cannot beat TTN. Decks with hierarch/bob and such usually fall prey to blood moon effects enough for those to be fine.
I’m convinced abrade is also a terrible card in the list. If you are 1 for 1 shops, you will lose. They have so much more mana production than you do that you if you are basically investing a turn in destroying things, it has to be at a better rate than 1 for 1.
Abrades are in the deck so I don't lose to my own mana crypt and not specifically for shops. I never felt they were amazing during my 5 rounds.
How is eidolon of the great revel? I haven’t played it. But again it seems pretty loose. Like you cant play it maindeck and hide behind a ensnaring bridge to beat mud. Because you’ll have to cast your cards and lose life.
It also doesn’t autowin vs combo lists. It could do some good, but you need other things to go along with it.
Curious how it has played out for you guys. But it just doesn’t seem one-sided enough to play in my opinion.
It was better at psyching my opponent out and drawing removal than it was at actually impacting the board. I will likely trim numbers, or move to board. Might even cut. I felt very meh about it. I will say they usually come right out for matchups where you want your bridges for very obvious reasons.
First, here is the list I played yesterday at a 17 person proxy vintage event in Austin Tx.
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Black Lotus
4x Blood Moon
1x Chalice of the Void
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
3x Eidolon of the Great Revel
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Hanweir Garrison
4x Magus of the Moon
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Ruby
3x Null Rod
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Null Rod
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Sudden Shock
I went 2-3 in some close games. Ill talk about them if people want. Jokulhaups is cute, for UW Standstill (primarily), and probably terrible. I did not cast it once.
To answer your questions from my subjective perspective:
The new generation of inferno titan oath is certainly worse for us than oath used to be. They get to hard cast titan, which can be an issue. The largest issue I have faced is their main deck Ancient Grudges. Your primary plan to hide behind a cage or a bridge works, but it is no longer a lock because they will eventually blow them up. If you fail to draw a quick threat, they will have time to fight their way out.
I had the option to run some number of blood sun. I could never convince myself why I would want to. To me, they do not shut off enough for me to want any in the deck. I understand that it will blank fetches and Bazaar, but most of those have a chance to get in and under the blood sun. If I am casting a "moon" effect, I want it to be blood moon or magus. I would rather it be a card that can kill my opponent since this deck relies so heavily on drawing a threat that will end the game. TL;dr: I have yet to have a game where I wish any card in my deck was a blood soon instead of what it already was.
I LOVE THE DECK. Full disclosure: I have an unhealthy relationship with mountains. What I really enjoy about the deck is that it has the tools to fight almost every popular archetype. It almost auto loses to Fish however. Essentially, you are there to beat up on every 3+ color deck while also having great game against Shops and other artifact decks. We are in red, which means we have all the tools to kill artifacts. The majority of my losses come from my opponents "out vintaging me" by getting in and under me with fast lotus/mox fueled hands/quick tinkers/combo killing in the first or second turn. Shrug, what are you going to do, its vintage!
I absolutely believe so. Literally no idea if I am right. personally feel like the deck is missing another 3 drop that is as much as a threat as Rabblemaster. I think that will push it to the next level, what ever that level may be. Scab-Clan berserker is fine, but not amazing. Eidolon is either medium or winning you the game. Sin Prodder is either amazing or completely embarrassing. I tried a Hanweir Garrison and pretended it was Rabblemaster Jr. I feel medium about it. Sometimes you literally win by casting blood moon and/or null rod and could win with raging goblin if you had one. Sometimes those cards can buy you a lot of time but you need to have a strong threat to win. This past weekend I had my oath player "totally" locked out by then 3. Chalice on 0, blood moon, null rod, and an eidolon against a basic island and 2 "mountains." The oath player had main deck removal for my eidolon, then was able to answer my hard cast SSG and then drew out of my lock (main deck ancient grudges) while I twiddled my thumbs and did not draw a real threat. TL;dr: It is really close but we are missing a card or an innovation.
I have never played blue moon in vintage. I suspect adding blue cards is bad and just makes your mountains worse. /shrug
Feel free to pick my brain.