Topics created by moorebrother1

I was hoping for discussion on how to make a better version of the deck. I like the 5 color concept because it offers so much flexibility and you avoid the trap of focusing only on blue and the fetch land interactions. Wasteland is less prominent so the 5 color lands should help in the long run.

I want main deck Abrupt Decay to kill Stony Silence and Null Rod and Thalia. It also helps with Chalice of the Void and Trinisphere.

Going with main deck Defense Grid makes it so that I do not need to play FOW in the deck. The deck rips through the pretty fast and it is consistent. The normal disruption against PO does not effect this deck as much at all. Thoughts?

Legalizing CE and IE won't help a damned bit, other than make that already-limited supply even more expensive as there's now an inflated value to those cards outside Cube and Old School (and EDH for things like Gauntlet and Duals).

@mountain-goat and @GutoCmtt are correct.

The current dip is due to Standard rotation and Guilds of Ravnica. The barrier to playing a different format on MTGO is low so you have players selling "eternal" staples to buy standard decks or play drafts. Just look at Mox Opal's price history on MTGGoldfish:

You see that pretty much every set release is coupled by a significant set drop in Mox Opal's value. The exceptions I can see are Aether Revolt (Sram equipment was a huge thing back then if I can remember correctly) and non-standard legal sets like MM3 and M25.

This is a predictable financial fluctuation on MTGO and I know some players use this opportunity to buy Modern staples.

Still, I maintain that you shouldn't buy into Vintage on MTGO because you expect to make money off the cards. You should buy in because you enjoy playing the format competitively and want the ability to do so more frequently.

@reb Awesome deck! Have you thought of some number of Bazaars or Squees? You could try turning it into a pseudo RGu Lands build or go for a more controlling route with Squees which might help you against blue decks. What are your thoughts on either of those options? Also what are your thoughts on running a basic land or two, or running Ramunap Excavator?

@garbageaggro said in Transmute Artifact:

Grim monolith and mana vault are both friends with transmute, as is painter combo, if you really want to play it.

I mean, all of these still play well with Tinker first and foremost, which leads you down the same evaluation path.

Here is where my head is. If you could construct a reason to play mono blue transmute gets a bit of value but for the life of me I cannot think of a list that can justify that. Let's say you wanted to do some sort of Turbo Timevault thing. Your still going to run off color moxen because you need targets but I GUESS you could start here:

1 Ancestral
1 Timewalk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
5 Moxen
1 Sol ring
1 Mana crypt
1 Mana vault
1 Black Lotus
4 Force of will
4 Mental Misstep
1 Tinker
4 Voltaic Key
4 Voltaic Servant
1 time vault
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant scroll
X Transmute Artifact

Now just as a thought experiment, answer these questions

What actual value are you realistically getting out of going mono blue? With all the ramp would you not be better off running copies of Tezz first? Is transmute still worth using over other possible blue tutor options like personal tutor, or even more xerox pieces like Preordain, Gush, Treasure Cruise, etc?

It just seems like there is simply too much competition for that slot. Tinker is most of the time a card that you win the game off of because your game plan around it is to set up protection the turn you go off. Every Transmute you also run in your deck is one less counterspell potentially to protect the wincon. In this regard the 3 mana versus 2 mana (if you are so lucky) is almost irrelevant since it is not something you are rushing out until your protection is in place.

@thewhitedragon69 said in Contempt for the meta-game:

Changing ingot chewers for shattering spree is not innovation.

What about for Offalsnouts?

@stuart for me, setting a goal related to a finish or result is actually counter-productive. We can’t control that- no control over matchups, die rolls, top decks, shuffle distributions, etc. It is, therefore, not worth worrying about. Very simply, I seek to maximize my preparation physically and mentally, maximize my enjoyment (by giving myself a chance to win and a deck I enjoy the mechanics of, ie no battle of wits), and minimize my controlable mistakes (missing on board math or forgetting revealed information).
Anything else is not in my control and shouldn’t be worried about.

(I do have some skins on the wall btw, SCG top 8, GP top 16)

@dunnydee I you have a deck with more threats or disruption that is a good strategy. The issue with Xerox v Xerox is not just card advantage but tempo and card draw. If someone can get a Jace or Dack through and you cannot answer it, they you will lose in 2 turns to their tempo.

If you are on Oath or PO then losing a FOW is not the worst idea depending on how you manage the board. If I'm on Oath and board in 2 uncounterable creatures then I may drop an FOW. If I'm on PO and I bring in 3 defense grid then I may drop an FOW, but that is very situational.

After eternal weekend this year I have to liquidate some cards and will likely move my pearl/jet/emerald. Keeping the rest so I can start brewing with you're template. Been having alot of fun jamming variants of this in testing.

Looking at past years you have: EW EU in April, TMD Open in May, SCG CON in June, NYSE in July, EW Asia in August, EW NA in November and Nebraska's War in December.
Some of those almost overlap, why is all the love going to Q2 and Q4 only?

To be honest the real thing keeping prison decks out of the meta is mainly Aggro shops, it's just way more efficient and consistent.
It's kind of like the comparison between landstill and jeskai, why try to completely control the game over many turns instead of just controlling the game long enough to win before your opponent has time to recover.

They would have to restrict some aggro pieces to make Workshop Prison a viable archetype again

@brass-man it might be that snapcaster and delve spells are better vs crypt effects than Yawgwill, etc are.

Here's a cute data point, for what it's worth. I spent most of the day today testing some Battlebond tech @Aelien . We weren't explicitly trying to react to this thread, but our results are probably relevant to the discussion

I was playing a controlly Grixis deck with 4 Mental Misstep and a Mind Twist

Aelien was playing a stormy deck with 7 Duress/Thoughtseize effects.

The Mind Twist was very good for me, and the Duress effects were very good for Aelien. At no point were either of us sad to be running those cards. I think these cards are still quite good against Combo, reasonably good against Slow Control, fine against Tempo Control, and bad against Workshops and Dredge. I think what one does with a Duress is so different than what one does with a Mind Twist that you have very different requirements for wanting them, and I think what one does with Hymn to Tourach is just something no Vintage deck wants.

Ultimately I think if you're just looking at playing one of Ravager Shops/Jeskai Mentor/Esper Outcome/Inferno Oath/Dredge, in a field that consists mostly of Ravager Shops/Jeskai Mentor/Esper Outcome/Inferno Oath/Dredge, discard effects just aren't the best option over alternatives (with the exception of Cabal Therapy, possibly Unmask out of Dredge decks). That's going to include most players in most metagames ... but I do think there are reasonable decks outside that list, and reasonable metagames that diverge from that list, in which Duress/Thoughtseize/Mind Twist are good choices. Hymn to Tourach, I think, won't make the cut in anything reasonable, and I can't think of any other discard effects that are particularly notable.

@moorebrother1 I would argue my streams come close at times. I just streamed a Channel Mirror deck with Spellseeker (1-3) and Danny Batterman's Rector Flash w/Seeker list (4-1) yesterday. I'm planning on streaming Experimental Frenzy tonight. I've previously streamed Tezz, Humanstorm, Kaya Control, or whatever I'm interested in at the time through leagues. Rich Shay @The-Atog-Lord will stream random decks that do well or his own creations. Brian Kelly's @brianpk80 streams are always original experiences with wild cards like Nicol Bolas or Glyph Keeper.

I would recommend following us on Twitch.
Me: https://www.twitch.tv/chubbyrain1
Rich: https://www.twitch.tv/richshay
Brian: https://www.twitch.tv/bpk80

@mediumsteve Your points are very good. And, if I were just playing in a league on MTGO or playing at a small local event I would probably think about a 3 color version.

I have tested many iterations of the deck and I have to emphasize that if you are playing more than 6 rounds consistency is key. Some people will do extremely well with 3 colors but I have found that against Shops and Jeskai you need to be very consistent. I strongly believe that a 2 color build is good but the single color build is just more consistent.

I've been playing Paradoxical Oath fora few months, so a little less mana rocks and with Orchard. I'm switching from that to some kind of form of the above brew ideas.

I'm firing up a Vintage league over the month of October locally, allowing proxies. About 7 solid so far up to maybe 12 depending on the next few days. We might do round robin, which sounds like a ton of matches, but this actually allows us to play at leisure over the month; each participant meets with each other whenever they can arrange that between the 2 of them, which isn't so hard given nearly every player is a regular attendee at one or more weekly events at our most popular local store.

I have been testing with this guy and he is awesome. He literally closes out the game and he does it faster than Terferi. He may or may not work in Xerox. I'm going to try that next and the run some leagues and see how I finish but at first glance he is really good.

Print an elf that etb removes all 1 of copies in all players decks. Barely effects any other formats, brings back elves, or helps dude decks, obv implications in Vintage.

Besides that? Get rid of the reserved list and reprint cards so more players can get into the format, more people, new blood, new innovation's.

@moorebrother1 Bad luck only exists if the goal is winning. If the goal is to do everything that you can to cause winning to happen... no more luck, good or bad... only choice-making, good and in my case, amusingly bad.