@defector null rod doesn’t affect the new Karn planeswalker.

How do y’all feel about tanglewire? I’ve always been fond of the card but because of how aggressive ravager MUD is along with how fast PO decks are, I feel like I’m better off dropping the tanglewires for either more null rod, ensnaring bridge, or damping Sphere.

@griselbrother I guess my main issue is I have a problem with spirit sticking. It always gets countered and If I use caverns, it always gets abraded or STPed. I think I just need to re-evaluate my sequencing and use something like Thalia 2.0 or another critter as bait more. I run the odd choice of wanting to land spirit as early as I can to shut down card draw but save it for when they use removal for other stuff.

@griselbrother it was you :) Thank you for the response. I've been jamming some games with your list recently. I've found that Relic Warder is really good against Shops where as Spirit isn't as good against the blue decks as warder is against shops. I think that it's because Thalia already taxes them so hard. Maybe i've been playing the deck wrong though. Anyways, I think I would start by making Relic Warder a 4-of and start shaving on some Spirit of the Labys.

@revengeanceful said in White Eldrazi:

@naixin If you're picking one, I think White Eldrazi would give you substantially better odds of winning matches than the deck you posted. It's more explosive and the overall card quality is higher. I would think there would be a lot of games with that white deck where you draw the wrong hate creature at the wrong time and just get run over.

Fair enough. Would you have a white eldrazi list you recommend I start with?

If i wanted to switch over from shops, would you recommend white eldrazi or white trash? I think white eldrazi has put up more results but there’s a version of white trash I’ve seen floating around that I really like.

Deck: Vintage White Trash.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:28
3 Containment Priest
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Sanctum Prelate
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Palace Jailer

Artifacts:9
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Null Rod

Enchantments:2
2 Stony Silence

Lands:21
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Karakas
7 Plains
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Aegis of the Gods
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Pithing Needle
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares

Any thoughts? I know TKS is insane but I’ve always felt like palace jailer is also quite strong.

@smmenen it just makes so much sense. Fastbond would open up new archetypes and it wouldn’t be overwhelming. 4x probe isn’t nearly as abusive without 4x mentor. Perfect information is bleh, but it’s not like storm will dominate (if anything, it’s underperforming atm). Ravager is a good ban because it homogenizes shops too much. Without it, I can see Stax making a comeback.

I like your B&R list so much more than the official list.

I love playing stax but right now, I think it's just a worse shops deck than ravager aggro. However, I think it's more fun and vintage is mostly about fun for me. Therefore, I choose to play shops (specifically marinara since welder is one of my favorite cards). Here is the list i've been running. It's pretty decent vs shops and can do ok vs dredge or storm post SB. The main problem is Oath decks, but oath generally beats shops anyways.

// Vintage Red Shops 2.0

// 60 Maindeck
// 29 Artifact
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Smokestack
1 Mana Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Uba Mask
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Damping Sphere

// 9 Creature
4 Goblin Welder
1 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker

// 22 Land
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Ancient Tomb

// 15 Sideboard
// 8 Artifact
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod

// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Wurmcoil Engine

// 2 Land
SB: 2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 By Force

I really want to go test Tangle Wire again but i'm not sure what to cut. Right now, I think I want to do -2 Damping Sphere, -1 Uba Mask, +3 Tangle Wire but i'm not sure as I need to test Damping Sphere more. Phyrexian Revoker also seems like it can be trimmed because Dack isn't as omnipresent anymore from my experience because Ravager + Ballista gives Dack a bad time.

I also really want to try out Powder Keg, Ratchet Bomb, Inventor's Fair, and Expedition Map. The main problem with stax i've found is that the lock pieces are all really good against specific decks and you have to happen to play the right lock pieces in the right meta as well as run hot to do well (bridge may be good against some decks but sucks against others).

tl;dr: stax is fun, but ravager mud is just so much better atm.

@john-cox Time Walk is absolutely brutal in our deck. I even considered a Temporal Tresspass before tearing and realizing it wasn’t too good. I haven’t found dismember to be that good because we can usually race mentor/pyromancer with island walk + TNN. We also get bigger than shops pretty fast.

@Topical_Island Gush is ok, but it hasn’t been as insane in other decks where you can pitch the 2 lands. Brainstorm may be good. Maybe a maindeck dismember can be good as well. I’ve also considered misdirection, Flusterstorm, another creature, or another null rod/damping Sphere.