I think the DCI should have a laissez faire approach to the B&R list. If we go back to the Chalice or Lodestone ban, it seems that it was made because of people complaining about "fun". I don't think either should have been restricted because they were shop's answer to blue card advantage (you can disagree with me on this). I have some pet cards that I would love to play again (restrict revoker + ballista please for Goblin Welder), but I don't think we should use personal preference to determine the B&R. Now, some people think that we should because at the end of the day, Magic is a game and a game is meant to be fun. I respect that opinion, but I disagree.

What's fun for one person is not the same for another. As a result of it's subjectivity, I think the default, purest way to go about the B&R is to go by objective "brokenness." I don't think Gush was fun. I think it's stupid and boring. However, I don't think it was inherently "broken" either. It canabalized blue, yes, but it also got WRECKED by thorns. If we go to rock-paper-scissors of pregush restriction, i'd argue that big blue > shops > gush > big blue. The issue was that people enjoyed gush more than big blue, despite the poorer shops matchup. This lead to people who play big blue to feel bad because they have to face more gush decks than expected. However, that's an issue with preference, and not "brokenness."

tl;dr I think the B&R should be used for brokenness, not fun. One man's trash is another man's Goblin Welder.

And to be clear, my post may be incoherent because i'm tired AF from studying. I'm also a Goblin Welder fanboy so the whole Gush vs. Mana Drain discussion doesn't really bother me as I would play Mishra's Workshop regardless.

Tucati Honor Guard
1W
Creature - Human Soldier (R)
Creatures entering the battlefield don't cause abilities to trigger.
1/3

It blocks 2/2s. Seems very narrow for vintage, but it does hit snapcaster. Seems like it'd be stronger in formats like modern where ETB effects are a premium.

Perhaps in Vintage, it can be seen in some sort of Dreadnought hatebear type deck?

So far what stands out:

Ashes of the Abhorrent 1W
Enchantment
Players can't cast spells from graveyards or activate abilities of cards in graveyards.
Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life.

The entire B&R argument can be summed up as:

"Paper's too OP we should restrict it; but Scissors are fine" ~ Rock.

A B&R should not be used to cater to pet decks. I think the format is adapting fairly well, as we tend to see different decks on the weekly challenge top 8s. Who knows, maybe more blue decks top 8 because people like playing blue. May dredge doesn't top as much because people think it's boring.

@Pokey UWr sounds interesting. Do you mind sharing your list? And is there a reason why you choose not to run PO?

@boggyb trinket mage is played because it can search up combo pieces (lotus, LED, spellbomb, ballista), cage, crypt, EE, sensei's top, etc.

It was basically a 3 mana demonic tutor with a body. I think it's less playable now because a 2/2 is just not as good anymore because of tokens and better creatures.

Salvager is probably one of my favorite creature cards (after Goblin Welder of course :P). One of the fundamental questions we have to ask is that in a U/W/x style deck, what does Salvager + Lotus + Spellbomb/Ballista offer that current decks do not. You get the instant "I win" factor, but the combo is very soft to graveyard hate, Phyrexian Revoker, Spheres, Null Rod, Stony Silence, and Pithing Needle.

Another deck I want to look at that has similar weaknesses and relies on resolving a 4 CMC spell to "go off" is Paradoxical Outcome based decks. I feel like compared to PO, Salvager + Trinket mage is just clunkier + draws less cards.

What you gain however, is a better plan B. You can beat people with 2/2s and 2/4s. That used to be good enough. But recently, I feel like with the new creatures and how aggressive shops are, Eldrazi being a thing, and tokens + STP everywhere, that bomberman is just too fragile.

Of course I hope someone proves me wrong because I want to play bomberman again.

@HouseOfCards I think combo was shut down hard by chalice which is part of the reason it went away. But instead of combo coming back, blue decks just started packing MD flusterstorm, mindbreak trap, etc to shut it down harder. More decks running MD null rod doesn't help either.

I love playing shops and I sort of like the blue meta because it allowed me to tinker with the right lock pieces for an expected meta. I don't think shops should ever be the "majority" because at its core, it's vintage's hatebear/prison deck.

It's similar IMO to how DnT always has game against the different delver variants in legacy, but will never be the most popular deck simply because the cards are individually shit and require a specific meta to shine. If everyone in vintage started playing 20 lands (or something else that makes a taxing effect less power i.e. landstill), shops would stop being as good.

I think we're only as good as the greedy blue meta is.

@HouseOfCards part of the reason might be that blue decks are inherently packing more land or SB pieces for shops where as shops's win % may be artificially inflated because it stomps random jack so hard. Just speculation as I'm out right now so I can't take a good look at the data.

Anyways my stance has been gush and probe shouldn't have been restricted, but neither should chalice AND golem. Perhaps chalice or golem, but that's another argument xD